Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,395
# 121
02-11-2013, 09:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by antoniosalieri View Post
Sure Dmg control is an issue... as you just said... it makes whole classes of escorts viable ?
Why is that... lol

Escorts where never intended to be the tank class... why should you be able to keep one copy of EPTS 2 up 100% of the time.

As far as snoozer builds... ya snoozers where already tanky... and for cruisers Aux to bat ends up making more sense anyway. Still it would have been a laughable idea to run 2 copies of EPTS 3 at one time... I in fact laughed at people that did it... now of course running ONE copy and using doffs to keep it up all the time... freeing up a Lt. Commander slot for more heals.... ya I'm sure that hasn't effected balance at all.
Well, running EPtS2 constantly on a 'scort is fairly niche and has its own problems. You're very vulnerable to subnukes and you now have two whole Ens. Eng slots that are more or less useless, except as backup.

I actually think in the grand scheme of things Damage Control are one of the weaker DOffs. I was very excited to get my purps on the recommendation of many friends, but for some reason they're one of the few cooldown DOffs (if not the only) that aren't reliable; it's a chance roll every time.

The reason I say Damage Control helps make a few ships more viable is that both the Defiant and the Prom (as well as its offshoots) struggle to manage with that lone Lt. Eng slot. There's a good reason the bug and the Patrol Escort are the darlings of that ship class and it's not just the turn rate.

Without Damage Control, a Rear Admiral AE cannot take anything in its Sci slots that justifies losing the far sturdier resilience of the Patrol. The situation worsens when you consider that EPtS is a faceroll fire-and-forget skill (the heal scales only on your EPS transfer and the resist component is always the same) while skills like HE/TSS scale on aux, something 'scorts don't typically have in abundance.

Before Damage Control, there was basically no real reason to take an AE at that level, and only a marginal reason to run MVAE. Sure not everyone's going to agree that they're necessary for those ships, but I've flown both a lot and I can say without a doubt that the DOffs were a positive albeit small step for both of them.

vids and guides and stuff

[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,395
# 122
02-11-2013, 09:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by naz4 View Post
To ask for a 2 tier system to cater for a minority is financially unfeasable. So based on that, your request would fall on death ears.

Why tone down ANY type of damage be it spike or sustained? To me both should be as viable as each other or else you will see matches run for hours on end between 2 competing teams and trust me, I don't want it to be like that. Been in too many of them.

As for the healing, the more you nerf it, the less viable you will make the engi even if this mythical FAW is fixed. What role will the engi play then? Healing on a personal level seems very balanced at this point in time. Its the passives you need to address be it from shields or traits. That's what is going out of control.

I really do think that right now, the meta game is in such a flux right now, I haven't enjoyed STO this much in a long time trying to figure out what works and doesn't work anymore.

I think overall I personally think the game from a PvP point of view is heading in an interesting direction. Granted its got its issues but hey, one thing we haven't seen until now is active PvP related changes and devs who can actually influence change working with us.

I know we have waited a few years for attention, so what's a few months more? Lets see what the May changes bring us. In the mean time, sit back, experiment and have fun.

Things like classic PvP are fun, but what's the point in a very fixed scenario? I love it right now that you can't run 4 man FAW boats with 1 escort. Do we want to return to something like that? Not me.

Just food for thought guys and girls:
We all talk about and cry for balance, but have you thought of what your asking to balance against? What is your benchmark for this balance. I know I truly can't answer that question right now.
.
+1

/10char

vids and guides and stuff

[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,395
# 123
02-11-2013, 09:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tripwire690 View Post
I mean Tac captains can now fly starships with bridge officer layouts that when properly setup will allow them to have 100% uptime on keeping their ship pointed at any target.
I'm not sure how this myth managed to get so far out of control but it's not possible for an escort to become permanently immune to snares or holds. There's still a 15 second gap between AP:O buffs no matter how many DOffs you throw at it, just as there's always been, and even if you clamp on Polarize Hull to boot, it only protects against t-beams.

vids and guides and stuff

[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by shimmerless View Post
I'm not sure how this myth managed to get so far out of control but it's not possible for an escort to become permanently immune to snares or holds. There's still a 15 second gap between AP:O buffs no matter how many DOffs you throw at it, just as there's always been, and even if you clamp on Polarize Hull to boot, it only protects against t-beams.
Attack pattern omega> Polarize hull > Attack pattern omega> 15 sec downtime >
repeat chain.

Now replace polarized hull with dampeners and you have no down time on turn unless nuked. 100% uptime on keeping your ship pointed at the target. No myth. None that I've seen.

-Captain Shift-

Let no other player discourage you from what you believe you can achieve in PvP. Though you may walk alone through looming shadows of doubt cast upon you by your enemies. Forge your heart with iron casting its shape out of only your pure will to push forward. You will not be denied eventually.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 522
# 125
02-11-2013, 10:10 PM
Dampeners don't resist tractor beams, or EWP for that matter.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 151
# 126 You're right...
02-11-2013, 10:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pokersmith1 View Post
Dampeners don't resist tractor beams, or EWP for that matter.
No it doesn't. And I'll look back over my post but I don't recall saying that either.
To clarify my point in mentioning dampeners is that an escort ship with the right bo layout has the option for all the benefits of omega chained with dampeners or all the benefits of omega chained with polarized hull. Whatever benefits they may be. With the understanding that they are more than what omega would do on its own chained or stacked depending on playstyle.

-Captain Tripwire-

Let no other player discourage you from what you believe you can achieve in PvP. Though you may walk alone through looming shadows of doubt cast upon you by your enemies. Forge your heart with iron casting its shape out of only your pure will to push forward. You will not be denied eventually.

Last edited by tripwire690; 02-11-2013 at 11:15 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 881
# 127
02-11-2013, 11:01 PM
You can become close to 100% immune, but the opportunity cost is quite high.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 105
# 128
02-11-2013, 11:17 PM
I think the main reason pressure dps such as Beam Arrays fail to do sufficient pressure is that they drain far more power from your weapons in the long run than other weapons.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 522
# 129
02-11-2013, 11:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tripwire690 View Post
No it doesn't. And I'll look back over my post but I don't recall saying that either.
To clarify my point in mentioning dampeners is that an escort ship with the right bo layout has the option for all the benefits of omega chained with dampeners or all the benefits of omega chained with polarized hull. Whatever benefits they may be. With the understanding that they are more than what omega would do on its own chained or stacked depending on playstyle.

-Captain Tripwire-

Bein a part-time escort pilot myself, I was wondering on your previous statement that I quote below.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tripwire690 View Post
100% uptime on keeping your ship pointed at the target. No myth. None that I've seen.

-Captain Shift-
I would very much like to keep a 100% uptime on keeping the ship pointed at the target, but I cannot think of one. Neither APO + aux2damp or APO + PH will provided such 100% uptime simply became APO will run into its 15 sec cd and aux2damp or PH wont provide the level of hold immunity or turn rate bonus that APO does. Did I misunderstood you or did you mis-state yourself?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 151
# 130 I don't believe I mispoke
02-11-2013, 11:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pokersmith1 View Post
Bein a part-time escort pilot myself, I was wondering on your previous statement that I quote below.




I would very much like to keep a 100% uptime on keeping the ship pointed at the target, but I cannot think of one. Neither APO + aux2damp or APO + PH will provided such 100% uptime simply became APO will run into its 15 sec cd and aux2damp or PH wont provide the level of hold immunity or turn rate bonus that APO does. Did I misunderstood you or did you mis-state yourself?
Okay. Last week we went over this. Without changing any power levels an escort captain in a breen ship in a private match with me was able to get 40 or 50 turn with no consoles when omega was up. when omega was down he was able to go slightly below the turn of omega. Now when I say slightly below I mean it was negligible. Like not even a 5 point difference with no significant increase to auxiliary power when using auxiliary power to the inertial dampeners.

THIS is what I mean by "100% up-time" and hurley understood exactly what I was referring to. You don't stack them in this case you CHAIN them one after the other. Sure its not the EXACT turn strength of omega but it almost is. The turn you get on an escort WITH rcs consoles is amazing. Let alone if you run the omega shield and emergency power to engines or pop an engine battery for 15-20 seconds every other minute. Kick your ship in reverse and there is no target you cannot keep your ship pointed at outside of being tractored, subnuked, jammed, scrambled or subspace jumped. As Hurley also mentioned it comes at a price to other skills or bo layout or whatever. But as I mentioned before. It is an option. And it is an option many exceptional escort captains have and continue to take advantage of. If you have the bo stations why wouldn't you?

-Captain Tripwire-

p.s.: Polarized hull will not help your turn rate. But aside from a 15 second gap every 45 seconds you have 75% uptime on resists to holds if you chain omegas with polarized hull. Another viable option depending on the bridge officer layout of the ship you are flying.

Let no other player discourage you from what you believe you can achieve in PvP. Though you may walk alone through looming shadows of doubt cast upon you by your enemies. Forge your heart with iron casting its shape out of only your pure will to push forward. You will not be denied eventually.

Last edited by tripwire690; 02-12-2013 at 12:06 AM.
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