Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,797
In putting together something for a post in another thread I was doing, I noticed something that I hadn't noticed before. I was wondering if anybody else had noticed it as well.

Two different ships used:
Chel Grett w/Aegis
Kamarag

Both Captains have Elusive (+10%) as well as 9 Maneuvers (+15%). As long as you're moving at 24 impulse or faster, there is no penalty applied. So this gives the following bonus defense numbers for each ship:

Chel Grett +90% (+45% (+5 Aegis Engines, +5 Aegis 2pc (moving), +10% Elusive, +15% Maneuvers, +10% Escort))
Kamarag +70% (+25% (+10% Elusive, +15% Maneuvers))

While sitting still, w/o any bonuses, you should be looking at a -15% defense bonus (so a penalty instead of a bonus).

So, sitting still - I should expect the following numbers:
Chel Grett +25%
Kamarag +10%

However, that's not necessarily the case. When I first warp in or after I respawn, the numbers are actually:
Chel Grett +0%
Kamarag -5%

Maneuvers is not being included at that point. If I move and then stop again, I'll get the +15% (not the +10% from Escort)/+10%. But after warping in or a respawn, I'll be at the 0% or even the -5%.

In most cases, one might say this doesn't matter.

However, in the case of a spawn camp - you may be looking at a period of time while your ship is sitting there with the lower number. Depending on your rig/ISP, in places like Ker'rat - this can often be long enough with the warp-in for you to find yourself already dead.

Those don't seem like big numbers, eh?

If there were no other modifiers for Acc (which, c'mon - they're going to be there), then the following is taking were my guy with his +25% Acc attacking either ship:

Chel Grett +0.15% CrtH, +0.6% CrtD
Kamarag +0.1538% CrtH +0.615% CrtD

With what it should be:
Chel Grett +0.136% CrtH +0.545% CrtD
Kamarag +0.141% CrtH +0.565% CrtD

But again, that's with nothing but the base bonuses. Say somebody had [Acc]x3's? What would it be against that first one?

Chel Grett +0.17% +0.68% CrtD
Kamarag +0.17% +0.69% CrtD

All of them guaranteed hits, mind you. But again, that's because both of my guys have Accurate (+10%) and 9 Targeting (+15%).

A person with neither, with no bonus to accuracy should have the following chances to hit the two while sitting still:

Chel Grett 86.9%
Kamarag 90.9%

Instead, they've got the following chances:

Chel Grett 100%
Kamarag >100% and they're getting that bonus to CrtH and CrtD

So is this an actual Defense bug or just a display bug? I know the numbers aren't that big and the situations are pretty small.. that's why I posted it here rather than in Gameplay Bugs. Maybe it's already there, I didn't search before posting this like I usually would...
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba - Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethean, M.Qin

Last edited by virusdancer; 02-09-2013 at 05:23 PM.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,764
# 2
02-09-2013, 05:10 PM
The only thing that should be giving defense to a stationary vessel is the elusive trait. That still should only make stationary defense -5%.
ApO's bonus defense , Elusive trait, both should work like the Aegis engine defense bonus- only while moving.
Thus making the escort class the "have to be moving class" again.
Richard Hamilton (1975-2014)
goodbye good friend. We will see you in the DMZ in the sky oneday, save a shot for us.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,797
# 3
02-09-2013, 05:30 PM
I had to edit my OP because I had not accounted for the +10% Escort for the Chel Grett...which kind of throws things off further, but I'm guessing that +10% Escort's only when moving along the lines of the 2pc Aegis set?

Aegis engine (+5% always)
Aegis 2pc (+5% moving)
Escort (+10% moving?)
Elusive (+10% always)
9 Maneuvers (+15% always)

So you want everything but the +10% form Elusive not to count - so a person that's not moving will be at -5% (or -15% if they're not moving)?

To be honest, actually - with Defense tied to movement - one might say that sitting still ignores all bonuses to defense and hits you with that -15% penalty (given that everybody starts out with 100% Accuracy and 100% Defense - these numbers we're talking about are just Bonus Defense (as well as the Bonus Accuracy)).

Would that make tractor spam too deadly though?

Hrmm, I'm curious though - as to why it works the way it does in regard to warp in/respawn, movement, and then sitting still. Aegis 2pc has an explanation. I guess it's easy enough to come up with one for why the +10% for Escort only counts while moving. The 9 Maneuvers not counting on the respawn/warp in is either a bug in defense or displayed defense.

But yeah, it's kind of easy to see where one might say that none of them should count while sitting still (although you suggested keeping Elusive, how are you being elusive while sitting still, eh?).

Course, on my Chel Grett I'm sporting beams - so I'm always moving (usually running dual APO and PH to cover the APO gaps - though, I admit that APO's broken and given 15s instead of 5s).

Hrmm, I hadn't thought about it in that way - though - was just focused on the bit I was looking at...so definitely something to think about.
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba - Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethean, M.Qin
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 677
# 4
02-09-2013, 05:46 PM
To my experience, this stationary Bonus Defense bug has been introduced somewhere in Season 4 (Where it actually fluctuated sometimes)

I never knew why this was suddenly happening, never really tested it extensively either but I can recall doing some tests where I managed to get 'miss'es on a fully stationary target on one of my Test accounts. lol

Its probably bugged.

ps. I've always had the elusive trait (+10%) even in the times my Bonus defense stationary still showed -15%, always. (Around season 3'ish)


MT

Last edited by darkfader1988; 02-09-2013 at 06:36 PM.
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