Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,015
# 1 Carriers and self-respect
02-09-2013, 10:56 AM
Yes, this is a rant. I don't even necessarily care if people respond to this. It's more so I don't have to type it into zone chat when I meet you people (if you found this from a link in zone).

I consider myself a KDF player with Fed alts, not the other way around. I don't favor any ship type, but I've been flying carriers from the start and have mad love for the Kar'fi especially. When I see people abusing her and the other carriers it chaps my ass. It ruins the reputation of the ship class and makes me wonder why somebody would even queue for PvP if they're going to play this way.

When used to augment the effectiveness of your ship pets are effective and balanced. The Kar'fi in particular is an incredibly capable ship that can get kills with two empty hangars. Dying to spike damage from a Kar'fi in the form of a BO, HYT, PSW, w/e will garner a certain amount of respect from your opponent. By the same token it shows respect for them by killing or attempting to kill them with your own hand.

Using placates and CC to avoid engaging other players while they die a death of a thousand cuts from pets is utter garbage. It says something about you as a player and sends the message "Here fight some NPCs because **** you." If you are running AMS with pet spam just stay in PvE.

Just because you can do it, doesn't mean you should. It ruins the reputation of respectable carrier pilots who try to give people a stand up fight but just really enjoy flying a ship that poops out other little ships.

And if you think a win is a win, while I was getting AMS'd by carriers today one of their teammates who is a regular around here was as digusted as I was and stopped supporting them. It won't just be your opponents who lose respect for you.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 341
# 2
02-09-2013, 11:04 AM
I loathe AMS as much as the next person but if you don't like spam but prefer a beefy ship, then why not pilot a Battlecruiser instead?

You can't really blame someone in a carrier for using it's pets as it's primary source of DPS while laying down CC. That's sort of what they're designed for, a support ship.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,535
# 3
02-09-2013, 11:05 AM
I can understand the sentiment.

The one thing that bothers me most when I see Carriers is this:

"Spammable pets" + Flight Deck Doffs to reduce cool down

It just drives me crazy to see that kind of lack of respect for the Carrier. Why use the squishy Fighters, when you could use more durable pets like Danubes, Delta Flyers, Kar'fi Frigates, Birds of Prey, or the ever OP Advanced Jem'hadar Attack Ship Pets?

They'll last longer, reduce the amount of "Spam" and cause less Computer based Grief (meaning Graphics Lag) and actually contribute to a battle.

I mean sure Elite Scorpion Fighters do contribute slightly, but more often then not their deaths from AOE incoming damage is the cause of the Carrier's death.
You think that your beta test was bad?
Think about this:
American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,416
# 4
02-09-2013, 11:06 AM
pets do a thousand little cuts? O_o... which pets?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mancom View Post
Frankly, I think the only sound advice that one can give new players at this time is to stay away from PVP in STO.
Science pvp at its best-http://www.youtube.com/user/matteo716
Do you even Science Bro?
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,535
# 5
02-09-2013, 11:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maicake716 View Post
pets do a thousand little cuts? O_o... which pets?
Elite Scorpion Fighters
Orion intercepters
Advanced Perigrine Fighters (Not sure on the Elites yet.. Anyone have Sci Tier 5 and the pets unlocked on their starbases? >.<)
Advanced To'Duj
Advanced S'kul Fighters.

Edit: Ran into a pair of Carriers using Elite Scorpion Fighters and Advanced Stalker fighters. Was quite annoying.
You think that your beta test was bad?
Think about this:
American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku

Last edited by webdeath; 02-09-2013 at 11:13 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 13,726
# 6
02-09-2013, 11:32 AM
By getting into the carrier in the first place, you're bringing NPCs into it. If somebody builds a tank carrier, where they're sporting KHG shields, having the PlacOnCritProc, are using JS, SS, etc... so that they're deriving the majority of their damage from their pets... well, that's pretty much playing a carrier.

If they didn't want to fly a ship that has pets, then they wouldn't fly a ship with pets. There are better choices. Those ships give up something for the pets. If they're not going to use them, then they should fly the ship that's not giving something up for them.

AMS is not an issue just with carriers. Sensors doesn't reduce the duration. You eat it or you cleanse it. It's an issue in general. I do have it on my Mirror Vo'Quv - but I don't take her in queues and there's only two situations that she uses it in Ker'rat:

1) If I'm alone and about to die to multiple unfriendlies, I'll drop it out. Cause it's funny to see them keep attacking each other. It's an object lesson. Enemy is dead - stop attacking - pay attention. It's not the same as dropping it out while there's still a threat from others. It's just funny...ahem.

2) At the restart respawn. It's part of helping to do Cryptic's job until they do it and fix the damn restart respawn. I think all KDF should drop Theta, Trics, AMS, and use all the garbage they can to stir up enough of an outcry from the Feds so that Cryptic actually fix that. Once it's fixed, then there would obviously be no need to do so... and if they continued to do such at the enemy spawn to set up something on the restart, well - I'd be right there along with everybody else looking down on them for what they were doing.

That being said, I don't fly a carrier to do damage - I fly a carrier to support my pets doing damage. I'm not flying a carrier as a healboat to drop out shield drones, I'm not flying a carrier to siphon, etc, etc, etc - I'm flying it to support the damage the pets do. I'll debuff their targets so they can better kill them - I'll try to survive so I can launch more of them to let them experience that joy of killing their target. Hell, I'll even heal the lil' buggers...


Fleet Admiral Geist, Klingon Science Officer - U.S.S. Arcadia, Benthan Assault Cruiser
U.S.S. Endless, Hazari Destroyer - U.S.S. Deogen, Phantom Intel Escort
U.S.S. Naked Sun, Hirogen Apex Battle Cruiser - U.S.S. K'Dyr, D'Kyr Science Vessel
Republic Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 85
# 7
02-09-2013, 11:52 AM
It reminds me of the UFC. You get a fighter with a boxing background and you get a Jiu Jitsu practitioner fighting in the octogan. The boxer wants to stand and trade blows but the Jiu Jitsu guy takes him to the ground everytime and ties him up. Frustrating isn't it?

Well I guess that is why they call it: Mixed Martial arts. The point: Not everyone is going to fight the way you want them to.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 114
# 8
02-09-2013, 12:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by redricky View Post
Yes, this is a rant. I don't even necessarily care if people respond to this. It's more so I don't have to type it into zone chat when I meet you people (if you found this from a link in zone).

I consider myself a KDF player with Fed alts, not the other way around. I don't favor any ship type, but I've been flying carriers from the start and have mad love for the Kar'fi especially. When I see people abusing her and the other carriers it chaps my ass. It ruins the reputation of the ship class and makes me wonder why somebody would even queue for PvP if they're going to play this way.

When used to augment the effectiveness of your ship pets are effective and balanced. The Kar'fi in particular is an incredibly capable ship that can get kills with two empty hangars. Dying to spike damage from a Kar'fi in the form of a BO, HYT, PSW, w/e will garner a certain amount of respect from your opponent. By the same token it shows respect for them by killing or attempting to kill them with your own hand.

Using placates and CC to avoid engaging other players while they die a death of a thousand cuts from pets is utter garbage. It says something about you as a player and sends the message "Here fight some NPCs because **** you." If you are running AMS with pet spam just stay in PvE.

Just because you can do it, doesn't mean you should. It ruins the reputation of respectable carrier pilots who try to give people a stand up fight but just really enjoy flying a ship that poops out other little ships.

And if you think a win is a win, while I was getting AMS'd by carriers today one of their teammates who is a regular around here was as digusted as I was and stopped supporting them. It won't just be your opponents who lose respect for you.


This sounds similar to a fleetmate of mine who has a vesta as a sci captain,,,everyone in the fleet thinks hes so good at pvp,,,yet the only reason he usually wins is because of pet spam/tractor spam from the runabouts coupled with all his wacky sci abilities. I have no prob with the abilities its the pet spam as those runabouts have tractors and chroniton weps on top of the main ship tractoring you as well,,all ships have different abilities to help them and thats fine, but the pet spam from the vesta runabouts is total garbage, you absolutely cannot move 70% of the time.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 13,726
# 9
02-09-2013, 12:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maximus614 View Post
This sounds similar to a fleetmate of mine who has a vesta as a sci captain,,,everyone in the fleet thinks hes so good at pvp,,,yet the only reason he usually wins is because of pet spam/tractor spam from the runabouts coupled with all his wacky sci abilities. I have no prob with the abilities its the pet spam as those runabouts have tractors and chroniton weps on top of the main ship tractoring you as well,,all ships have different abilities to help them and thats fine, but the pet spam from the vesta runabouts is total garbage, you absolutely cannot move 70% of the time.
Honestly, though - if it were a Tac/Eng in the Vesta with the ADRs would it be as much of an issue? They might have their tractor and they'll have the ADR tractors. There's no SNB though to strip APO/PH.

Of course though, then you add in multiple carriers with ADR and multiple player ships with tractors while having the various Sci with SNB... while also likely having GW and BTE or STE taking place... yep, you're not moving.

Cryptic has a tendency to look at X while ignoring the cumulative effects of XYZ with some ABC and a little 123 thrown in to boot...


Fleet Admiral Geist, Klingon Science Officer - U.S.S. Arcadia, Benthan Assault Cruiser
U.S.S. Endless, Hazari Destroyer - U.S.S. Deogen, Phantom Intel Escort
U.S.S. Naked Sun, Hirogen Apex Battle Cruiser - U.S.S. K'Dyr, D'Kyr Science Vessel
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 114
# 10
02-09-2013, 12:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
Honestly, though - if it were a Tac/Eng in the Vesta with the ADRs would it be as much of an issue? They might have their tractor and they'll have the ADR tractors. There's no SNB though to strip APO/PH.

Of course though, then you add in multiple carriers with ADR and multiple player ships with tractors while having the various Sci with SNB... while also likely having GW and BTE or STE taking place... yep, you're not moving.

Cryptic has a tendency to look at X while ignoring the cumulative effects of XYZ with some ABC and a little 123 thrown in to boot...


I dont know if the issue would be big enough, as all those in my fleet with vestas are sci captains.

The other problem i have found with battling those runabouts (and this may be my fault) is that for some reason my ship will consistently target them even when i have clicked his vesta,,i try to tractor him and i tractor his pet,,,i try to sub jump him and i jump behind a pet,,i went through options and tried to fix this but its still doing the same thing,,,plus he has both placates (adapted maco shields and rom tier placate) so hes constantly disappearing while im constantly tractored and chroniton spammed to death.
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