Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,085
# 131
03-24-2013, 03:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by squishkin View Post
Hard to argue that the Treaty of Algeron was a bad treaty; what exactly did the Federation lose in exchange for sixty plus years of peace? Nothing, as far as we can tell. Their allies, the Klingons, had plenty of cloaking devices they were presumably studying (for anti-cloaking technology, since we know the Federation's sensor technology has kept pace), and when they needed a cloaking device, the Romulans just loaned them one!


Now, if you want an interesting cloaking device, don't put it in place of a weapon. Put it in place of the shield. There's lots of reasons to believe that the cloaking device is actually a modification to the shield system, after all. A unique, Mk XII ultra-rare shield which allows for limited cloaking would be a unique tactical dimension, involving some interesting trade-offs.
You forgot the time that The Federation built their own cloaking device, one better than anything the klingons ever did. Although personally i think the cloak should be made as canon as possible by making the basic version able to activate at any time at the hazard of dropping shields to do so. That's how it works in the show, and that's how it should work in game. What i do agree with though is limiting the federation's use of it to one type of each class. The defiant and Galaxy-X count for the cruisers and the escorts, so maybe a sci-ship could get one and small craft and carriers are left out.

Another thing i would like to see is the technology matching the times. By next gen's standards they were already advancing the basic cloak, so we should get updated versions for each faction.

Feds get intangible cloak Either fleet or rep max level. Once cloaked you can travel through objects but would get a debuff from things like mines or spreads (we'll say subspace damage since you're intangible)

Klingons get Cloaking Bouy. Think of it as an AOE cloak letting them hide up to 5 ships or a small mine field. It's a perfect trap for the klingons to use, but to keep their cloak better they should get the advanced battle cloak as their starting cloak while feds just get the current battle cloak as standard.

As for the romulans, i don't think they should get the shizon perfect cloak, but at the same time maybe give them some type of shielding while cloaked? I don't know, but that's debatable. As their basic cloak though they should be allowed to use cloaked mines like klingons use torpedoes. Think Enterprise when they come across the cloaked mine field, but just being laid by a cloaked ship.
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 426
# 132
03-24-2013, 06:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wraithshadow13 View Post
You forgot the time that The Federation built their own cloaking device, one better than anything the klingons ever did.
Well, no. Both the Klingons and Romulans had experimented with similar cloaking devices in the past.

The Klingons apparently abandoned the technology. And for good reason, in my opinion: so far it's gone two out of three at blowing up the ships you use it on. That's one disadvantage; it's apparently incredibly unstable.

Second and third, the cloaking device seems to have fundamental flaws: it's apparently easy to spot if you're looking for the right things (chronitons) and easy to defeat if you're doing the right thing (anyon beam).

This doesn't make it terribly successful, in my opinion. Pressman was a fool.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 5,545
# 133
03-24-2013, 07:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by squishkin View Post

This doesn't make it terribly successful, in my opinion. Pressman was a fool.
Or whoever he might've been working under was a fool at least as well.

Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 517
# 134
03-25-2013, 06:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by squishkin View Post
Hard to argue that the Treaty of Algeron was a bad treaty; what exactly did the Federation lose in exchange for sixty plus years of peace?
Being at a strategic disadvantage is a loss

Quote:
Nothing, as far as we can tell. Their allies, the Klingons, had plenty of cloaking devices they were presumably studying (for anti-cloaking technology, since we know the Federation's sensor technology has kept pace),
Tell that to the Scimitar.
Captain
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 2,010
# 135
03-25-2013, 06:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hartzilla View Post
Being at a strategic disadvantage is a loss



Tell that to the Scimitar.
Scimitar was plot device.

Anyway, i think that if you paid 2500 zen to grab a Galaxy-X or 2000 for a defiant Refit the cloaking console should not be limited to those ship classes.

Anyway, anyone who has played klingon knows that the cloak is only a small advantage.
Advanced battlecloak is another story, but regular cloak only gives a moderate advantage at best.
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 426
# 136
03-25-2013, 12:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hartzilla View Post
Being at a strategic disadvantage is a loss
Except we know that's not true. The strategic disruption of the cloaking device is minimal under almost every significant combat scenario, and the Romulans know this.

The Federation border with the Romulans (and presumably with the Klingons) is littered with sensor outposts capable of detecting cloaked Romulan ships, and as Toreth of the IRW Khazara points out, the chances of a single cloaked Warbird penetrating twenty hours into Federation space without being detected is low.

More to the point, multiple cloaked warships together generate sufficient emissions to be detected on sensors, and a cloaking device is almost useless above warp factor six because the subspace emissions of warp engines can't be masked at high power levels.

The only tactical area where a cloaking device is a strategic advantage is in raiding, except that Klingon and Romulan ships are woefully slow compared to Federation starships, and that's not accounting for the fact that their cloaking devices are of dubious efficacy at high warp even if they could reach it. It's hard to make an effective raiding force when you're cruising around at warp three and your enemies can do a great deal better.

Quote:
Tell that to the Scimitar.
The Scimitar had an apparently unique and magical cloaking device that was never seen before or after. It demonstrates little of consequence, and in fact, they could have done a great deal better than they did at fighting it based solely on their capabilities as shown in Nemesis.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 873
# 137
03-26-2013, 12:59 AM
Federation players are just jealous because they cant have battle cloak and be a badass. I made a video of my BoP in action. If you want battle cloak, join the KDF
I drink, I vote, and I PvP!
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,273
# 138
03-26-2013, 04:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bubblygumsworth View Post
Federation players are just jealous because they cant have battle cloak and be a badass. I made a video of my BoP in action. If you want battle cloak, join the KDF
This is usually my response to threads like these. If people want to use KDF exclusives, play KDF!!!. Stop trying to steal KDF concepts and graft them onto the Federation. The Federation has its own focuses and strengths, and the KDF should have its own as well. The key idea is to try getting these differences to balance out in the end.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,085
# 139
03-26-2013, 09:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by travelingmaster View Post
This is usually my response to threads like these. If people want to use KDF exclusives, play KDF!!!. Stop trying to steal KDF concepts and graft them onto the Federation. The Federation has its own focuses and strengths, and the KDF should have its own as well. The key idea is to try getting these differences to balance out in the end.
It's not a KDF concept, it's how it worked in the shows..... And to be honest I have no problem with the KDF having a Bad ass version of the cloaking device, i just think it should work like it does in canon. Like i said earlier, I'd be all for the KDF getting the advanced battle cloak as a starting version and getting a better cloak for their higher levels, in fact think they should as well as the romulans, I'd even be okay with a bigger debuff for Feds after being hit when cloaked, i just think it should work like it did in the show.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 174
# 140
03-26-2013, 11:46 PM
Quote:
Being at a strategic disadvantage is a loss
Yeah, it's hard being ethical sometimes.

At least, so I'm told.
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