Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 288
I have never seen what it cost in Dilithium and EC to produce one Tier 4 or Tier 5 ship.
I have seen a few complaints in my fleet about having a minimum contribution.
Ships do cost a whole lot more than 20,000 fleet credits so what is the hiden cost.
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 476
# 2
02-11-2013, 06:24 AM
Appart from those 20.000 fleet credits, any fleet ship costs 4 ship modules (500 zen each, a total of 2000 zen), except from the Fleet Excelsior in the Fed side that is 5 modules. Each module can also be acquired from Exchange at a cost of 4-5 millions EC.

Also, if you have a previous C-Store version of the fleet ship, the fleet version itself reduces it cost to 1 single fleet module.


Free versions (for 200.000 fleet credits at no zen cost) are good enough to give it a try, and even for almost every PvE, but arent quite high-end ships so its recommended to get a high end fleet ship.

Those 20.000 fleet credits are very easly obtainable, so i dont see the complaints. 20.000 Dilithium for example are exactly 20.000 fleet credits. The hard part are the modules, and you cant obtain those by contribuiting to your fleet so...
[That's it, Spanish and/or Hispanic Fleet]
L'Ter@lotherus - Alien Sci Officer - Wells/Destroyer
(No quiero mas reputaciones - No more rep!)
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 122
# 3
02-11-2013, 07:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blakes7tvseries View Post
I have never seen what it cost in Dilithium and EC to produce one Tier 4 or Tier 5 ship.
I have seen a few complaints in my fleet about having a minimum contribution.
Ships do cost a whole lot more than 20,000 fleet credits so what is the hiden cost.
There is also the cost of the provisioning for the fleet store - which costs, commodities, dilithium, doffs and fleet marks.

Then there is the huge cost involved in getting the starbase to tier 4 as well as getting the shipyard to tier 4.

These are all "HIDDEN" costs that a general member/temporary member of a fleet may not realise.
Republic Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 85
# 4
02-11-2013, 09:22 AM
As someone has already said, the main reason why there is a minimum contribution required for fleet purchases is because of fleet provisions. Now, when a fleet gets to tier 4 though, it's usually the case that there are more than enough provisions to go around when it comes to ships(fleet eng provisions is another story). However, most fleets will install the minimum contribution system for both practical reasons and principle.
Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 488
# 5
02-11-2013, 09:48 AM
Out of curiosity, what requirements do the "fleet provisions" entail?

Within the ship and shuttle requisition officer UI, the requirements are listed as fleet credits, fleet ship modules and starbase military fleet ship provisioning.

I can only assume that the 100+ starbase military fleet ship provisions the UI tells me are available are somehow not eligible for use on this purchase. Google research suggests that these provisions are tier specific, but not even the almighty Google was able to provide a clear answer on this issue.

If the provisions are tier specific, why would the UI mislead me so by suggesting that Tier 1/2 provisions are available to use? I'm not even certain that this is the case, because the system is so poorly documented.

I was really disappointed when I ran across this last night, just after my fleet finished its T3 shipyard. I only started playing this as F2P recently, this was my first zen purchase and I already feel ripped off, and I haven't even yet touched the RNG side of the cash shop.

Any information regarding the fleet provision system would be helpful, because as I said, it's terribly documented, and the default UI is woefully misleading (to the point that I'm inclined to pursue a refund, or write the game off before I suffer further grievance).

Last edited by millimidget; 02-11-2013 at 09:50 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,519
# 6
02-11-2013, 10:06 AM
Fleet provisions are not bound to a tier of items... if your fleet bought ship provisions at tier 1 and didn't use them until tier 5, you could get any of the tier 5 fleet ships with those original provisions.

The provision projects (which yields provisions for things) will vary in cost by the current tier of the fleet, since it also grants 500 XP towards upgrading the area of expertise that the provision comes from (i.e. provisioning fleet ships gives your fleet more Military XP).

If you can't purchase a fleet ship but have all the requisite materials (fleet credits, ship provisions, and ship modules), then either your Shipyard isn't the right tier (the ships are sprinkled almost haphazardly across all tiers... some of the best ships are at low tiers, some are stuck at T5), or you don't have permission to requisition the ship (in which case, the only solutions are to talk to your fleet leadership or join a more lenient fleet).
Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 488
# 7
02-11-2013, 10:15 AM
Thanks for the response.

Are there additional hidden provision requirements? From that list of the total starbase provisions, do I need any besides the starbase military fleet ship provisioning?

If it's just a permissions issue, I disagree with allowing open-ended contribution but closed rewards (actually, this whole provision mechanic seems totally outdated), but I can hopefully resolve that easily enough (and hopefully without agreeing to make STO a job re: becoming a fleet officer).

EDIT: Yeah, it's a permission issue. I'd suggest improving the starship and shuttle requisition officer UI to be less misleading (the yellow text would be better replaced with the standard darkened or greyed text usually used for incomplete requirements), but thanks to years of MMO experience I can tell already that typing out anything more than the above statement would be a waste of time.

Last edited by millimidget; 02-11-2013 at 10:35 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 782
# 8
02-11-2013, 11:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by millimidget View Post
Thanks for the response.

Are there additional hidden provision requirements? From that list of the total starbase provisions, do I need any besides the starbase military fleet ship provisioning?.
The other "hidden" costs are competition, time and opportunity.

Time & Opportunity: You can only do a certain number of projects at once. If there are things your fleet leadership need done, it may not be possible to start a provision project. Later fleet projects take days or weeks to complete event if you can pay the cost 2 seconds after it pops up in the queue. All of that time it is taking up one of your slots preventing you from putting in a new provision project.

Competition: the larger the fleet the faster projects get paid for. However, a provisions project for a 200 person fleet only gives 5 or 10 of a certain type of provision, same as it does for a 15 person fleet. those provisions vanish really fast divided among 200 people.

Personally, I think it would be nice to add two more categories of provision projects:
1. Provisions over time. Instead of 5 or 10 in a lump, give 1 a day for 10 or 20 days. Get several of these going and it's like regular shipments coming in. Realistic, and helpful. Also, it spreads competition for the provisions out over time instead of a race once they pop.

2. Larger projects specifically for the bigger fleets. 10 times the cost for 5 or 6 times the provisions but exactly the same time to complete. Pay a premium for the faster delivery, adding more provisions but at a slower delivery just makes the problem worse.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,442
# 9
02-11-2013, 11:21 AM
In my fleet, I operated a simple minimum contribution amount in order to access fleet stores, it didn't work very well as the provisions were used up almost the instant they arrived.
Ranking permissions didn't really work either as that was all or nothing. It would be good to actually be able to ration out the provisions to people rather thank listen to complaints about insufficient provisions because someone bought 8 fleet beam arrays, 2 torpedos, 6 pulsewaves and an engine using up all the provisions in one go. (It's even worse when you're in the process of upgrading and can't even set an assignment that doesn't cost 200k dil to get a handful of provisions!)

In the end I closed it off completely to everyone and made them ask, which worked surprisingly well until I went away for two days.

Provisions are the most pointless part of the fleet base grind and I find it really stymies the fleet progression. It would be better to up the price of the upgrades or include them as part of the normal assignments instead.
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin
Republic Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 85
# 10
02-11-2013, 11:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by millimidget View Post
Thanks for the response.

Are there additional hidden provision requirements? From that list of the total starbase provisions, do I need any besides the starbase military fleet ship provisioning?

If it's just a permissions issue, I disagree with allowing open-ended contribution but closed rewards (actually, this whole provision mechanic seems totally outdated), but I can hopefully resolve that easily enough (and hopefully without agreeing to make STO a job re: becoming a fleet officer).

EDIT: Yeah, it's a permission issue. I'd suggest improving the starship and shuttle requisition officer UI to be less misleading (the yellow text would be better replaced with the standard darkened or greyed text usually used for incomplete requirements), but thanks to years of MMO experience I can tell already that typing out anything more than the above statement would be a waste of time.
While I agree with your sentiment about the balance between contribution and fleet store access in principle, the fleet I'm in has found it difficult to manage a fleet this way. The main problem comes from people who haven't been contributing consuming a lot of fleet provisions. Most fleets will require a minimum contribution, but that cutoff point is different for each fleet. Just find a fleet where the cutoff point is reasonable to you. Hope you get your ships.
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