Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,465
# 31
02-11-2013, 05:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by skyranger1414 View Post
You are mixing lore with game mechanics... what are you thinking?
All I'm going to say is this:

Most of the ships classified by STO as Escorts are in fact Cruisers.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 92
# 32
02-11-2013, 05:52 PM
Escorts DO NEED a nerf, it is obvious in both PVP and PVE. Their hulls are little high and their dmg output makes everyone want to play one, and leave cruisers in the dust and unwanted in elite STF's anymore now a days.

However, do not try and argue this point to current Escort/Tac Officer lovers because they do not listen to reason. They will bring you down to their level and then beat you with experience.

Maybe one day, Cruisers/Engineers will be useful again :"(
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 166
# 33
02-11-2013, 06:00 PM
The issue with the game comes down to a battle between show logic, reality and game logic.

The game needs to have flexibility so Cryptic can sell ships to the largest amount of people thus they continue to make bigger and more powerful ships.
Turns out the most popular ships in STO tend to be the warships which kinda makes sense when your in a glorified wargame.

The normal trinity system of Tank / DPS / Heal is woefully broken in this game due to the flexibility and complete lack of any kind of threat management tools.
As a result the highest DPS ends up being the tank because they get the highest threat.

If the game were to drop the stupid trinity concept completely then it would potentially get people cruisers that can compete with Escorts... but its gonna come with a hilarious price that you will not like.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,060
# 34
02-11-2013, 06:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemepwe View Post
How much of this games PvE is just glorified easy kill content...
Depends if they bring back the D'Deridex Defender again, gives the KDF their Wave Motion Gun back, allows the Reman Captains their mind clones, and the Legates their holo emitter strike teams, methinks.

Rambling ahead.

From a strict "regular game"-player view: I find the Mogai Escorts the most challenging of the game's AI because it actually uses some skills like APa or TT. Mind you, they always use them like clockwork and you can always counter them like clockwork. I do like that I have to approach them differently depending upon the ship I'm in. And each culture does require different boff skills to counter the signature dirty trick attack of whoever you fight.

Imagine the mobs having more skill options to choose from. That would really kill a lot of the complaints about Escorts being OP since the only skill you need to fly them is to point them in the right direction and pull the trigger. It'd probably cause some "OMG! Buff escorts!" threads, but what can yah do?

The only thing I'd want is a heads up from Cryptic over an improvent in the mobs AI.

Rambling over.
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Last edited by twg042370; 02-11-2013 at 06:04 PM. Reason: Focus... focus...
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,292
# 35
02-11-2013, 06:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by twg042370 View Post
Depends if they bring back the D'Deridex Defender again, gives the KDF their Wave Motion Gun back, allows the Reman Captains their mind clones, and the Legates their holo emitter strike teams, methinks.

Rambling ahead.

From a strict "regular game"-player view: I find the Mogai Escorts the most challenging of the game's AI because it actually uses some skills like APa or TT. Mind you, they always use them like clockwork and you can always counter them like clockwork. I do like that I have to approach them differently depending upon the ship I'm in. And each culture does require different boff skills to counter the signature dirty trick attack of whoever you fight.

Imagine the mobs having more skill options to choose from. That would really kill a lot of the complaints about Escorts being OP since the only skill you need to fly them is to point them in the right direction and pull the trigger. It'd probably cause some "OMG! Buff escorts!" threads, but what can yah do?

The only thing I'd want is a heads up from Cryptic over an improvent in the mobs AI.

Rambling over.
Didn't they already dumb down and de-power the Borg already because of too many Escort Captains who don't know how or don't want to do anything but point and shoot - were getting blown up all the time?

So that's all this game is becoming - come in blow some stuff up fast and get out? Sad! With the power creep/hull creep and dumbing down of enemies I guess more people can casually play and not learn to play.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 602
# 36
02-11-2013, 06:22 PM
Whats with all the nerf this, nerf that BS. Three things that could be done to make cruisers worth playing without shafting those of us that use escorts:

1. Increase the hull strength by atleast 50%
2. A moderate increase in the cruiser shield modifier.
3. Adjust beam arrays power requirements so that broadsiding can be effective without weapons power at 125. Something like 4 or 5 power per shot rather than 10.

Bottom line, instead of trying to bring the effectiveness of escorts down to be "balanced" with cruisers how about suggesting some ways to improve cruisers and even science ships. I have spent allot of time and resources building up escorts and will not take to kindly to some nerfing just to appease cruiser players.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 166
# 37
02-11-2013, 06:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by born2bwild1 View Post
Didn't they already dumb down and de-power the Borg already because of too many Escort Captains who don't know how or don't want to do anything but point and shoot - were getting blown up all the time?

So that's all this game is becoming - come in blow some stuff up fast and get out? Sad! With the power creep/hull creep and dumbing down of enemies I guess more people can casually play and not learn to play.
The Borg are quite capable of nuking even cruisers to death with insane torpedo hits.
Oh right, this was yet another useless rant of anti-escort garbage.

You know... if you want to play a game with lots of ship complexity try EVE Online. Perhaps you want STO to adopt EVE Online's system ?
Since I played EVE Online for years I would happily shift to that system but somehow I dont think anyone would be happy with the idea of it taking a year to be able to fly a Galaxy then another year to fly it well.
Commander
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 289
# 38
02-11-2013, 06:35 PM
I have made posts about what cruisers need and its that ability to Chain abilities into a powerful attack like escourts can. A Tac in an Escourt can chain AP Alpha, or Beta, Fire on my mark, Go down fighting, with his CFR3 and strip facing shields and half the hull in one good crit pass. The cruisers need the hyperflux off of the Romulan beam with a seperate cooldown from BO3 and change the Buff that directed Energy Modulation gives so that a Cruiser when he chains his abilities to his BO2 or 3 can do aprox the same spike damage that an Escourt can. Currently thay can chain heal abilities to become almost invincible, so they need 1 good ability to add to the beam override like the Hyperflux to give them that good spike crit hit that they need, They should at least be able to one shot BOP's in Cure space with this ability. And about a 2 min cooldown is fair.

In summary: Beam Hyperflux + DEM (or some ability that gives shield pen) + BO3 = BOOM!
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,292
# 39
02-11-2013, 06:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by causalityeffect View Post
The Borg are quite capable of nuking even cruisers to death with insane torpedo hits.
Oh right, this was yet another useless rant of anti-escort garbage.

You know... if you want to play a game with lots of ship complexity try EVE Online. Perhaps you want STO to adopt EVE Online's system ?
Since I played EVE Online for years I would happily shift to that system but somehow I dont think anyone would be happy with the idea of it taking a year to be able to fly a Galaxy then another year to fly it well.
I would not say I am anti-escort. On the Fed side I have Defiant retro and Adv mvam + the Breen ship + patrol escort

I just feel we are starting to see too much hull creep on the escort side to make them last longer vs players knowing how to use that class properly.

If most people flew a 24k bop and did fine they would know that 33-37.5k escort hulls are excessive.

Last edited by born2bwild1; 02-11-2013 at 06:41 PM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 237
# 40
02-11-2013, 06:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by born2bwild1 View Post
Waaa waaa waa waaa wa Escorts vs Crusiers - (KDF Bops excluded) I waaa waaaa waa waa waa waa escorts waa only 10-15% lower waa waaa waaa waaa waa waaa waa waaa waaa waaa.

Waaa wa waa waaaaaa waa waaa 36k Hull escort? waaa waaa waaa wa waaaa 25k hull.
Nothing needs to be nerfed, your skills just need to be improved. Please stop wasting forum space for these useless threads.

Suck it up, and move on.

Last edited by megacharge07; 02-11-2013 at 06:44 PM.
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