Captain
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 663
# 11
02-13-2013, 10:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by redricky View Post

Watching that vid on balanced game design was like listening to great advice from a psychologist on how to build healthy relationships while thinking that I can't wait to get back to my girlfriend so she can empty my bank account and step on my balls some more.
But the point is still well stated. It somehwat lacks these days in STO.
Co-founder of The Spanish Inquisition TSI - Cause no one expects it!

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Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 959
# 12
02-13-2013, 11:09 AM
Quote:
It is probably completely impossible to rebalance the game at this point without massively restricting what doffs and special consoles can do.
Setting caps on buffs/debuffs would allow balancing without needing to touch (almost) anything. For example, if weapon damage could only be buffed by X%, you would be able to choose how to get there thru some mixture of tac consoles, buffs, etc. Hell, Cryptic could make it possible for any type of captain to reach any of the caps.

And diversity of builds increases - if you only need 3 tac consoles to hit the cap on energy weapons, you could finally dust off those torpedo consoles.

And special consoles just get you to a given cap faster, or with a different console slot. So a "slow" special console might impose the maximum "slow" debuff without using a BO slot for a tractor beam.
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,495
# 13
02-13-2013, 11:34 AM
Piloting matters too. Cannons for example have a travel time as do torps, where beams are near instant after an activation time. This means the damage can be spread out w/distance allowing for manual rebalancing of shields and repairs on cooldowns to come back. I've done this w/a Vo'quv w/combat engines of all things while hindering the alpha source's movement.

Also, audio cues often give a heads up of an incoming alphas. BOs have a longer activation time and the audio cue starts at the beginning of the activation. Torps have a travel time and the audio cue helps.

I don't prebuff my teams and run 2-3 team types on nearly all my builds. I'll often only run w/1 copy of TT including non-aux2batt builds. I'm able to do this by piloting, having other Boff counters, and listening.

This doesn't mean my ship doesn't explode, it happens but (lag spikes aside) it's b/c the otherside played better, I was attempting to buy time for allies and sac'd myself, or I got tunnel vision and wasn't paying attention to what else was going on around me (usually the cause of my death b/c I prefer a hit and run playstyle and get stubborn and don't run when I should).
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 4,260
# 14
02-13-2013, 12:02 PM
What I have always loved about sto... was the very active buffs.

This game of all the mmos I have played has some of the shortest cool downs one everything.

Even powerful captain abilities have no more then 3 min cool downs. Pretty much every other mmo ever made has much slower buff cycles.

I think it is part of the magic that keeps us coming back here despite all the other issues we complain about. STO is fast paced. (or at least it used to be) Don't get me wrong I never felt like it was some space shooter... it still felt very trek to me. (I know some people claimed the speed was untrek)... I think it had a nice balance. If you made an error with a buff there was ways to correct things before it was to late... ect.

Now we have a game where the devs seem to have decided that the very fast buff system we had wasn't fast enough. How else do you explain every second item/doff release having some sort of cool down reduction.

It has gotten to a point where there is no more point counter point... because frankly everything is always on. Having most buffs cooled down to global is pretty much a reality these days... you can get there with Tech doffs, dmg control doffs, all the weapons doffs, time sets, lockbox ships with more boff slots, fleet deflectors, all the sci skill doffs, Attack Pattern doffs.

Of all the changes the devs have made in the last year or so... its the cool down changes that have had the most impact imo... mostly it has completely removed the point counter point system... the heal reductions have made well built sci ships darn near unkillable... it has made escorts extremely tanky by freeing up tac slots, while increasing uptimes on high level attack patterns, and Emergency power systems. (lets all be honest with ourselves now... my escort has EPTS 1 and EPTE 1 up 100% of the time... and omega 3 up 50% of the time, delta is up when omega isn't and I run a aux to damp just in case I really need some turn.... there is no looking for the gaps in my buffs anymore cause there isn't one).

In any event I don't mean to turn this into a 2 page rant. I have found PvP to be less and less enjoyable in STO the last year... at first I blamed that on p2w consoles, and even ships. The more I think about it however, I think it really comes down to the dumbing down of the PvP game. The need for timing has been reduces... the value in watching buff bars has been lessened. (yes its still important... but there is no more counting off your enemies buff bars... cause likely when it ends it will just be reapplied)

With out annoying alot of people by completely changing a ton of doffs, items, and even ships... I can't think of anyway to bring that back. I honestly fear these types of threads are pretty much a post mortum at his point. It might be time for Cryptic to take note of where they let it go off the rails so they don't make the same mistake with there future titles.
Dignity and an empty sack is worth the sack.
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 959
# 15
02-13-2013, 12:12 PM
They could cap cooldown reduction and/or increase the global cooldowns.

The problem now is not any single special doff, console or whatever, it's that they all add together with no limit.
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Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 14,451
# 16
02-13-2013, 12:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by naevius View Post
it's that they all add together
What's wrong with the game is a cumulative effect of so many, so so so many, so many things. They keep lumping more and more on - without considering how those pieces may or may not work together. They delude themselves into believing that they're offering an opportunity cost - but that cost's not there. Things aren't anywhere near balanced enough for there to be an opportunity cost in most cases.

And more's going to be added.

At what point do they just make all buffs active and give everybody SNB DOFFs - so with a mix of lucky RNG from a few sources, folks might get the kill? How much of the game already revolves around VM, SNB, and other various lucky procs because as was stated earlier in the thread - folks are running around near perma buffed - where they still have stuff in reserve for the gaps...or maybe they even have some RNG defensive proc.

It's almost enough to make somebody PvE...
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 993
# 17
02-13-2013, 02:18 PM
Yay Spaceships
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Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 14,451
# 18
02-13-2013, 02:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrkollins View Post
Yay Spaceships
Spaceships without potential issues one might face in other Yay Spaceships games.

Yep, Cryptic knows they've got folks by the short and curlies...
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