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Career Officer
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 514
Maybe it's just me but I get the sense that some of the biggest F2P games are PvP focused? Isn't Cryptic missing a trick here?
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 585
# 2
02-14-2013, 06:38 AM
Most of them also keep an eye towards PvP team composition and balance, and are also usually narrowly-focused on the PvP aspect.

Most of them don't go out of their way to try and bend their PvP to fit PvE encounter design that operates on vastly different considerations from PvP while also trying to balance for PvP, instead opting to build their PvE around the concepts and considerations dictated by the PvP.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,307
# 3
02-14-2013, 06:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by magniacapra View Post
Maybe it's just me but I get the sense that some of the biggest F2P games are PvP focused? Isn't Cryptic missing a trick here?
Hush man, or you might startle the Elephant.

Seriously though they are designed so that even if you are attempting to PVE, you end up in PVP. How's that for focus? You literally can't do anything except try to find a safe social zone and chit chat if you wish to avoid PVP. And even then it can come and find you.

Anywho's why is this so. And you or anyone else could look this up and read some of the fascinating studies done on MMO's. (Did you know that the most popular MMO's in Eastern/Occidental cultures mirror those cultures! Fun Fact!)

Competition breeds competition. I know isn't that crazy? Who knew? The fiercer the competition the fiercer the competition! Again, who knew? Games that have a STRONG PVE base and I don't mean players, I mean the game, can foster a STRONG PVE comepetion. Think "World First" competitions in WoW. That costs a HUGE amount of developer resources to have inside a game. And it isn't easy. You need a good story as well. And for some reason, most MMO's think an Engineer is a storyteller. They never seem to hire any pro's. Or even someone that can use spell check. But anyhoo's, PVE is expensive and difficult to do correctly.

PVP on the otherhand is INSANELY cheap to implement, and get the same results.

Who would have thought that nerds like us would line up to beat the tar out of each other without an intensive and thorough background story and character developement?

So based on this Cryptic already IS getting tremendous ROI from PVP players. Could they get more? Sure.

PS: When investment is zero, any return is fantastic isn't it?
If I don't respond to posts on this forum don't be offended. I don't sub or follow any of them.
Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 427
# 4
02-14-2013, 06:50 AM
I think most people play pve because pvp is still not balanced enough. In pvp queue casual players meet regularly often with premade team that kick they ass and thats why they are avoiding it ! btw pvp is almost all sci ships and tac "jem bugs and temp ships".
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,069
# 5
02-14-2013, 06:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rakija879 View Post
! btw pvp is almost all sci ships and tac "jem bugs and temp ships".

huh?
don tknow about what game you are talking but in game I see people using steamrunners ,mvam,aquarius ...and occasionally a bug as escorts.
For sci ships the vesta is the most often seen.This is because you will always see more fleet./cstore ships than rare ships like bug or lockbox ships....its math.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 6
02-14-2013, 07:42 AM
I would guess that through sheer numbers the answer is most likely PvErs.

I think PvP might house some of the largest whales (people who spend a lot), but PvE most likely has the lionshare of whales in general.


On top of this, many PvPers are generally saavy enough to get items like lockbox ships & fleet ship modules from the exchange, and not so many of them care about cosmetic stuff or ships that don't look to have any performance advantages.

PvErs, especially in an IP like Star Trek with real Trek die hards, will most likely buy anything as long as it satisfies a part of what they want out of a trek game.



If the ratio was better balanced with regards to PvErs vs. PvPers this might be different, but also keep in mind that most PvPers have to at least do some PvE to get certain items - which also serves to inflate that segment even further.

Career Officer
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 514
# 7
02-14-2013, 08:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ussultimatum View Post
I would guess that through sheer numbers the answer is most likely PvErs.

I think PvP might house some of the largest whales (people who spend a lot), but PvE most likely has the lionshare of whales in general.


On top of this, many PvPers are generally saavy enough to get items like lockbox ships & fleet ship modules from the exchange, and not so many of them care about cosmetic stuff or ships that don't look to have any performance advantages.

PvErs, especially in an IP like Star Trek with real Trek die hards, will most likely buy anything as long as it satisfies a part of what they want out of a trek game.



If the ratio was better balanced with regards to PvErs vs. PvPers this might be different, but also keep in mind that most PvPers have to at least do some PvE to get certain items - which also serves to inflate that segment even further.
No doubt, but if PvP'ers spend the most per capita, wouldn't it be worth a modicum of investment to get more of those Whales? Simple things like a pvp reputation store, a few more maps/mods and better queue system would go a long way. Combine a few PvE related insentives like more dilithium or fleet marks and you'll have pve'ers taking part too.

I think part of the tunnel vision in this forum is the belief that PvP needs to be balanced to be sucessful, and then that gets lost within the debates about what balance is, power creep and what is and isn't broken. Most of it is irrelevent, as long as FOTM's don't become FOYM's and things are regulary updated, the games healthy. More important is content, and looking at the potencial ROI wouldn't PvP related content generate a healthy amount of return right now?
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 8
02-14-2013, 08:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by magniacapra View Post
No doubt, but if PvP'ers spend the most per capita, wouldn't it be worth a modicum of investment to get more of those Whales?
That's not really a question any player can answer without seeing the data-mining the developers might have.


Keep in mind, that things most of this community hates are exactly the things Cryptic is mostly profiting from by selling to PvPers (lockbox ships, powerful consoles, DOFFs that have almost 0 PvE value, rep powers which effectively have a time/cost).


It's a tough question for Cryptic, what do you sell to PvPers that they will both want (performance increases) but not be angered by (too much power in those performance increases)?

Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 959
# 9
02-14-2013, 08:38 AM
I would guess that serious PvP players have bought every ship that has a useful console, and every ship that seemed useful in PvP, and plenty of lockbox keys.

Conversely, a PvE player might buy a ship because it looked cool and never care/notice that it was 'bad'. *cough* Galaxy *cough*.
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Career Officer
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 514
# 10
02-14-2013, 08:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ussultimatum View Post
That's not really a question any player can answer without seeing the data-mining the developers might have.


Keep in mind, that things most of this community hates are exactly the things Cryptic is mostly profiting from by selling to PvPers (lockbox ships, powerful consoles, DOFFs that have almost 0 PvE value, rep powers which effectively have a time/cost).


It's a tough question for Cryptic, what do you sell to PvPers that they will both want (performance increases) but not be angered by (too much power in those performance increases)?
I've been in subscription based MMO's that have stuck rigidly to zero power creep ideals. They became stale and died. F2P isn't immune to this either.

Either way, you can add more stuff that costs dilithium and as long as it isn't obscenely priced and the barrier to entry is low enough it's not a problem. Right now though, there needs to be a way to queue premades and pugs separately, have klinks and feds on the same team in new maps/game modes and just generally new maps. That, combined with a new PvP repulation store would be a nice direction to go.
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