Career Officer
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,452
# 11
02-13-2013, 10:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by avarseir View Post
I mean.. if one day Cryptic just decided to change all the comm Eng to comm Tac for all cruisers, I can guarantee that the complaint thread about cruisers will drop by 90%
That's about the only thing that would make me start to complain about cruisers. And I would complain very, very loudly until I got my Aceton Beam III back.


"I won't try to hide behind the Law if what I stand for is what's Right."

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Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 236
# 12
02-14-2013, 01:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sander233 View Post
That's about the only thing that would make me start to complain about cruisers. And I would complain very, very loudly until I got my Aceton Beam III back.
Thats because you belong to the 10% of cruiser captains who understand cruiser strength. I would also vehemently object if they do this!

But to the 90% of cruiser captains, they think they're flying warships with 50 beam arrays and 50 torpedo slots. They also have epeen so huge that the entire quardrant is not enough to contain that epeen.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,755
# 13
02-14-2013, 02:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by avarseir View Post
Thats because you belong to the 10% of cruiser captains who understand cruiser strength. I would also vehemently object if they do this!

But to the 90% of cruiser captains, they think they're flying warships with 50 beam arrays and 50 torpedo slots. They also have epeen so huge that the entire quardrant is not enough to contain that epeen.
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its simple then you and the 10% keep your tanks that cant get Opp at cure if 5 of you are in the same instance and let the other 90% have real Star trek ships

Tanks are not required in this game I tank all elite STfs with my fleet Defiant with 4x a cruisers firepower ( Galaxy retrofit ) for a example

And its not even the best escort !

Who is more right 90% or 10%
Who spends more money ?
Yes i Drive a cruiser too
Jellico....Engineer.....Stargazer KDF Tac
Saphire.. Science.....Ko'el Rom Kdf Tac
Leva........Tactical.....Mailu KDF Sci

JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 236
# 14
02-14-2013, 03:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jellico1 View Post
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its simple then you and the 10% keep your tanks that cant get Opp at cure if 5 of you are in the same instance and let the other 90% have real Star trek ships

Tanks are not required in this game I tank all elite STfs with my fleet Defiant with 4x a cruisers firepower ( Galaxy retrofit ) for a example

And its not even the best escort !

Who is more right 90% or 10%
Who spends more money ?
Yes i Drive a cruiser too
Whenever i see someone say "I tank Elite STFs in a fleet defiant", I know thats complete BS. A fleet defiant can never ever withstand a borg heavy plasma torp but cruisers can survive that. Now i understand why there're so many complaints about borg one shotting everyone.. thats because of players like you who have no clue.

I also have a fleet defiant with all sorts of purple Mk XII gear and MACO/Adapted MACO gear and I can tell you that its less survivable than my Gal-R for example.

Again, there's no such thing as best escort or best ship and once i hear someone coming forward and preaching about the best escort or best cruiser or best whatever, i know that person is even more clueless. This is because every ships have their own strengths and it really depends on how the Captain equips it.

Also, notice that I didn't mention the word "TANK" at all, i merely said "resilient". Its you who pigeonhole the cruiser into a role, not me.

Go troll another thread, your ideas are flawed.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,043
# 15
02-14-2013, 04:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by avarseir View Post
Whenever i see someone say "I tank Elite STFs in a fleet defiant", I know thats complete BS. A fleet defiant can never ever withstand a borg heavy plasma torp but cruisers can survive that. Now i understand why there're so many complaints about borg one shotting everyone.. thats because of players like you who have no clue.
And perhaps you are forgetting a few things about this game...

Such as: Keybinding CSV II and I means that the pilot has scatters running on a 10 up 5 down cycle. Therefore, sitting at, say, 5km range means that every HY torp launched at a stationary escort is going to take more than 5 seconds to traverse the distance, so it will be hit with a volley before it can do damage to the escort...

With EPtS II / I and a pair of Tac Teams, again, that same 10 seconds up 5 seconds down pattern is operational for a defensive purpose. Since Tac Cubes rarely (if ever) use the borg Hyper tachyon beam, this means that it takes very specific circumstances for the shields to be dropped.

By the nature of keybinds, IIRC, the defenses will be up while the CSV's down, and vice-versa.

Tack on a decent shield, and a few shield-booster science consoles, and the escort can easily attain cruiser level, if not nigh-science vessel level, shields. Add HE I and Aux2SIF, and bingo, a ship that's "just resilient enough" to survive even an elite tac cube... And this is before Reputation procs, using borg set for heals, DOffs for BFI shield heal, etc...

Then factor in that said escort gives up absolutely no DPS to attain this resilience, and that the Elite Tac Cube = sub-boss level foe, and any "competent" escort pilot can rightfully ask "why do I need the cruiser to protect me"?

In a game that was somewhat designed to use the "trinity" - meaning that said escort really shouldn't be able to do what it's doing, since the definition of "glass cannon" means that it should not be able to survive any sort of extended damage without severe assistance. THIS is why cruisers complain - escorts, especially "well built ones", can "have their cake and eat it too" while cruisers are just stuck with one thing - survivability, and needs to take extreme measures to "come close" with the DPS thing...

TL-DR: Keybinds = tanking escort, Keybinds /= DPS cruiser. Fix "trinity" or make all homogeneous - aka tanking DPS machines...
Well, with the upgrade announcement leaving NX and Connie fans in the dust again, can we restart / revisit the T5 Connie and NX threads - since they will no longer be "truly" endgame ships... (after we get the T5 versions, it'll be time to see them added to the T5U upgrade charts too...
Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 471
# 16
02-14-2013, 04:52 AM
All escort should have hull and shield like the brel bop that ship is a great dmg dealer and it's great in combine with hit and run tactics. And what s best no one is complaning about it so why not make every escort like it with low hull and low shield mod
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,202
# 17
02-14-2013, 06:12 AM
I really should post a video of myself flying my eng/crusier and then a screenshot of the DPS and heal parser, so that people see that the problem is in the way they use their ships, and not ships themselves. I've even been pondering to buy a fleet galaxy just to prove them that any cruiser will perform well and will play a significant role if you fit it and play it well.

I don't say i'm not opposed to see escorts healing and tanking abilities lowered (i'm all for it) but that harder missions have been designed to get at least a good cruiser in it.

Ask for harder pve instead of asking for a buff to cruisers, that's the best solution.

Last edited by diogene0; 02-14-2013 at 06:15 AM.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 254
# 18
02-14-2013, 07:14 AM
Following is my opinion on the whole cruiser thing, which also ties in to classes as well;

Think it's more the problem with how the game is than the ships themselves. The game forces you as a cruiser to choose two routes. 1. Sub Par DPS (Although not good enough to be compared to a DPSer in a escort [not assuming skill level]) or 2. A tank/healer (Who is pretty much useless because they made the game a dps race in PVE). How to fix this issue? Maybe make a cruiser who is a tank/healer more relevant in PVE?

A tank/healer seems to be very useful in PVP, yet in PVE it seems to be a lost art form for eng and sci classes who fly cruisers. What's the point of having ships that were meant for that role if the game is more based around how much dps you can spit out instead of actual endurance and skill of helping your team survive?

I know this conversation seems to be more about making cruisers more DPS in a reasonable way to not piss off escort pilots, but maybe that isn't the real issue. If my engineer with my tank/healer build was more useful in PVE I wouldn't care so much about its DPS since that wouldn't be my role. They kinda messed it up for other classes who fly cruisers with how they made PVE rely so heavily on DPS only.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 71
# 19
02-14-2013, 07:21 AM
I think the balance is good.

However..

If a group of players get together to create a pre-made PvP team of 5 escorts and they do it properly. 5 Escorts will easily wipe out 5 Cruisers within a minute. Especially if they are on KDF side and all 5 players are using the leech consoles, with a mix of tetryon, tachyon beam and all 5 have Romulan torpedoes.

There are some crazy teams in PvP with Escorts and they take not just Cruisers from 100% in 2 seconds but Carriers or Sci ships.

On my screen I don't even seen the decrease it just suddenly drops from 100% to boom no kidding.

But I'm not complaining. It's hard to know if the teams they are wiping out are all fully built ships and specced properly. I also think playing on wi-fi causes this and some players may feel Escorts are hitting them hard because the game is not balanced when in-fact their computer is not sending enough data to the server to react to whats happening.
Captain
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 659
# 20
02-14-2013, 08:21 AM
The primary issue in PvE is how the encounters are designed. Until Cryptic decides to revise the AI of NPC ships so that success is not determined solely by the amount of dps you bring, changes to how our ships operate would only shift favor from one ship class to another. We used to play cruisers online. Currently we play escorts online. Is science online next?
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