Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 380
# 11
02-14-2013, 10:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sirsitsalot View Post
Here's a better thought... How bout people who decide to embark on the Fleet Holding development journey accept the fact that Cryptic's idea of fleets involves MANY players coming together for common enjoyment of the game rather than just another content avenyue that anyone can progress through.

Your fleet size SHOULD determine how efficiently your Fleet Holdings can progress. Very small fleets SHOULD take as long to reach Tier 1 as a massive fleet takes to reach Tier 5.

...snip...
Nice, but if I can interject here..... this is a video game not real life.

While your idea is an interesting one, you are subjugating players that are not interested in experiencing even a whiff of fleet drama to miss out on everything this game has to offer (both in content for us the players and in the revenue generating kind for Cryptic).

-------------------

50 fleets of 10 people in a properly scaled starbase system will need to collect the same amount of resources as 1 fleet of 500. So whats the big deal there? It will still be the same ratio of people to resources needed to advance.

And while everything else required for Starbase advancement can be traded/bought without limits.... Fleet marks are bound to character, so no cheating there. You need them?... then play the content that rewards them if you want to advance your fleet.

How about I give you say a 2% input discount per each fleet scale level... a 10 man fleet would need the same per person ratio of inputs plus 10% verses a 500 member one.

------------------

You speak of time frame differences based on players... since when do time frames in this game make any sense. Show me any armed services on this planet (or any other for that matter) where you can go from a green recruit to and vice admiral in a weekend?

How about we meet half way and slightly reduce the project completion times at each Starbase scale level, with the quickest project completion times reserved for 500 man fleets and the slowest for 10 man fleets. At max this should be a 6 month difference from start to finish, not 6 years as it sits now.

--------------------

Worried about people abusing the system by amassing large amounts of fleet credits, then jumping to a top tier fleet to purchase high end equipment? Fleet credits stay with the fleet they are earned in.

"But the fleet I'm in sucks and its not fair!"... now you will have something in common with all those poor German and Japanese WW2 grunts. Real world enough I think.

And with scaled Starbases.... a shiny one with your name on it is within your grasp... in this lifetime...

-------------------

"Our fleet is growing and we have no more room for new members!"

Enter Cryptic and the Fleet Starbase Module only obtainable from the C-Store. I'll throw out a figure of 5000 Zen per fleet level scale up. Exploitable.... ok 10,000 Zen. Still exploitable.... 20,000 Zen.

Let's let Cryptic do the math and come up with a figure. We can complain about it later....

------------------

Also this method requires no additional in game assets be created, only some back end programing magic...

And everybody likes magic right?
I used to have f/x, till my video card took a S9 to the knee...
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 518
# 12
02-14-2013, 10:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevaldt View Post
I chose to be in a small fleet to avoid the problems of being in a larger fleet, plus I actually know all the people in my 5 man fleet.
If you chose to be in a 5 person fleet, then you should be fine with everything that means, including the fact that you will not advance as fast as larger fleets do.

Fleet scaling will never happen, because it will be exploited like mad. There's simply no way around this. It also goes against the basic concept of the SB system, that being something for larger fleets to work together on to achieve.

You and others seem to have this misconception that the SB system was intended to be equal and that advancement should progress at the same rate for all fleets. This is simply untrue.

Quote:
50 fleets of 10 people in a properly scaled starbase system will need to collect the same amount of resources as 1 fleet of 500. So whats the big deal there?
Not sure why this even needs to be explained...

Why in the world should 10 people have the same buying power as 500? Why should a larger group be forced to pay 50 times more for the same thing? How is this fair to those larger groups?
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,465
# 13
02-14-2013, 10:44 AM
1) Coming from someone whose mega fleet is making hay out of being the first one to publicize getting to T5, this is just hilarious.

2) Way to use multiple examples from multiple sources to backup your assertion that a fleet should be 300 people. Also, canon and balance are two non-related variables.

3) There are plenty of fleets that are more than just one guy and his two buddies. In fact I'd be willing to lay down money that a majority of fleets exist somewhere between the "zerg fleet" and "solo fleet" extremes.

4) None of the above changes the fact that non-ginormous fleets are entirely screwed over by the current starbase and fleet holding system.

Last edited by stirling191; 02-14-2013 at 10:47 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,917
# 14
02-14-2013, 10:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by voyagerfan9751 View Post
Small fleets will have a harder time gathering resources and advancing their starbase/embassy, while larger fleets will find end resources such as requisitions for buying fleet weapons/ships in high demand as there are more members then requistions. This was stated from the moment they announced the fleet system.
Larger fleets will still have it easier if the costs/progression were based on 5 or 10 people instead of 25.

Will STO still be around in the time it may take some smaller fleets to accomplish Tier V? Just my own opinion, but anyone believing progression was scaled for "average" fleet size is kidding themselves. These were tossed in to be long term massive time and item sinks, nothing more.
Captain Kirk is climbing a mountain. Why is he climbing a mountain? Is he learning to fly?
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,465
# 15
02-14-2013, 10:56 AM
Here's a thought: desynch fleet gear lockouts from starbase progression.

To wit: Put all fleet gear (Ships, weapons, everything) on their own public vendors (possibly in ESD/Qo'Nos). Each item would be purchased individually with provisions, fleet marks and dilith. Fleet projects would award provisions to every fleet member, instead of a singular pool that everyone in the fleet draws from.

Higher tiers of a starbase would allow for projects that awarded more provisions, therefore allowing higher tiered fleets to give their members faster access to things, but without arbitrarily locking out players from items. Players then have the choice to save up for more expensive fleet items, or splurging on cheaper, less powerful ones.

Bigger fleets still come out on top with faster and better gear acquisition, but smaller fleets arent 100% ****ed.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 29
# 16
02-14-2013, 10:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stirling191 View Post
1) Coming from someone whose mega fleet is making hay out of being the first one to publicize getting to T5, this is just hilarious.

2) Way to use multiple examples from multiple sources to backup your assertion that a fleet should be 300 people. Also, canon and balance are two non-related variables.

3) There are plenty of fleets that are more than just one guy and his two buddies. In fact I'd be willing to lay down money that a majority of fleets exist somewhere between the "zerg fleet" and "solo fleet" extremes.

4) None of the above changes the fact that non-ginormous fleets are entirely screwed over by the current starbase and fleet holding system.
O, I completely agree with you. But till the devs pull your heads out of the clouds and add a coalition system into the game, small fleets with under 25 active players will be screwed over on a daily basis.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 380
# 17
02-14-2013, 11:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by voyagerfan9751 View Post
Cryptic has said from the beginning that Fleet progression works like a bell curve with regards to members vs progression.

Small fleets will have a harder time gathering resources and advancing their starbase/embassy, while larger fleets will find end resources such as requisitions for buying fleet weapons/ships in high demand as there are more members then requistions. This was stated from the moment they announced the fleet system.

Cryptic has also stated repeatedly the reason for not scaling requirements is because it is highly exploitable. People can effectively Dismiss almost all Fleetmates, until they have a fleet size of 5 people, and then breeze through the progression until they have everything they want. New Limited project comes along. Dismiss most of your fleet, finish it in a week, grow back up again. This is what Cryptic is trying to avoid.

Yes, this results in small fleets or inactive fleets (fleets who may have larger numbers but really not many that work on fleet base progression) getting the short end of the straw, but that is an unfortunate side effect of balancing fairness into the game. Even then Cryptic has tried as best they could to accommodate smaller fleets.

Until you find a system that isn't explioted by dismissing members left and right as the "need" suits you, you are going to get the resolution you want. Even then I think really small fleets are never going to get the resolution they want. it just isn't possible.
There would be no advantage in kicking members only to grow it back later as it suited you in my outlined system. Your per person input requirements would have to cover all the people you airlocked.

The only fleet changes allowed would be to increase max membership allowable and that would require purchasing a Fleet Starbase Module from the C-Store; at an amount Cryptic would have to determine; that would makeup for any discount received in leveling your base up at the lower membership level.

And just how are they doing their best to accommodate smaller fleets?
I used to have f/x, till my video card took a S9 to the knee...
Ensign
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 16
What if after reaching T5 in a certain tree (military/engineering/Science) there was a consumable item they could create that could be sold on the Exchange to speed up a smaller fleets projects in that tree.

For example: A fleet gets to T5 military. One of their projects could be a create a consumable "cadre of military advisers" or something, that they could sell on the exchange. Someone could buy it to "buff" their current fleet projects by a certain percentage.

This way a smaller fleet can speed up their SB leveling, and a large fleet can make some EC without resorting to selling access to their ship yard, which I don't have a problem with personally, but it seems to rub some people the wrong way.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 378
# 19
02-14-2013, 11:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stirling191 View Post
1) Coming from someone whose mega fleet is making hay out of being the first one to publicize getting to T5, this is just hilarious.

2) Way to use multiple examples from multiple sources to backup your assertion that a fleet should be 300 people. Also, canon and balance are two non-related variables.

3) There are plenty of fleets that are more than just one guy and his two buddies. In fact I'd be willing to lay down money that a majority of fleets exist somewhere between the "zerg fleet" and "solo fleet" extremes.

4) None of the above changes the fact that non-ginormous fleets are entirely screwed over by the current starbase and fleet holding system.
the idea of a fleet is to have members we have 350 active members it not that hard to get
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,077
# 20
02-14-2013, 11:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stirling191 View Post
1) Coming from someone whose mega fleet is making hay out of being the first one to publicize getting to T5, this is just hilarious.

2) Way to use multiple examples from multiple sources to backup your assertion that a fleet should be 300 people. Also, canon and balance are two non-related variables.

3) There are plenty of fleets that are more than just one guy and his two buddies. In fact I'd be willing to lay down money that a majority of fleets exist somewhere between the "zerg fleet" and "solo fleet" extremes.

4) None of the above changes the fact that non-ginormous fleets are entirely screwed over by the current starbase and fleet holding system.

So instead you think our larger fleet should be penalized by having our individual contributions worth less then yours is if scaling were implemented. How is that fair to us that we should be penalized just for doing what fleets are supposed to do, grow and include new players to share in the benefits of our starbase. Starbase construction system is fine as it is.


I still see a lot of random fleet invites whenever I level a new character, no recruiting message in zone, no pm, just people spamming invites. This is not how to grow a fleet, you need to talk to people so they feel like they are actually wanted, and not a just resource for a fleet to farm.
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:22 PM.