Captain
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 728
# 91
02-15-2013, 05:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by woodwhity View Post
Well, killing a cube with just a mine-load and a torpedo wasn't OP enough?
Or one shooting players in pvp? After the last "nerf" I tried them out and one-shoted three escorts in pvp with one mine-load. And those weren't bad players.

Since I dont play pvp often, I do not care much about pvp-issues, but after playing them, I concurre that they are more than a bit OP. Had one player with me in Infected, and he damaged the cube with one projectile dealing 243k damage.

You are angered because you get one-shoted in a STF? I can imagine the frustration after being one-shoted by another player, who isnt even better than you or has better equipment than you. In fact, Tric-mining is the easiest way to play.
you would only one shot regular cubes, not tac ones and thats only if you had several damage buffs active plus getting a crit

also any escort player that gets oneshotted in pvp by tricobalt mines is in fact bad and where did i say i was angry about being one-shotted in a STF, i didn't even talk about that.

and tricobalts are NOT the easiest way of playing, especially since you have to hug the gateway/tac cube/whatever and risk getting a heavy torp/regular torp to your face, maybe killing you.

and to finish, you will only get something as high as 243k damage if you have literally every possible tac damage buff, with debuffs on your target plus a critical, means you have one shot of MAYBE doing that every 5 minutes.

so yeah, cryptic has officially made tricobalts utterly useless.

Last edited by phoenicius; 02-15-2013 at 05:12 AM.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 63
# 92
02-15-2013, 06:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
The damage output of the Lobi Store Temporal Torpedo was not intended to be modified in this change, and will be restored.

It may be subject to balance changes in the future, but was not intended to be changed alongside Tricobalt damage output.

As for the Tricobalt changes themselves, we're monitoring the performance of these weapons under the new changes and they are likely to be subject to additional tweaks. The massive spike damage that was possible using them on their previous cooldown rotation was causing an imbalance in damage-over-time expectations that could not easily be accommodated when balancing space combat.
Is there any chance that you could change the Temporal Disruption Device to Chroniton damage instead of Tricobalt? It just seems odd that the Set 2 perk is a 27.4% increase to Chroniton Projectile Weapon Damage, yet that would have no effect on the device that is giving you said bonus. Was Tricobalt chosen because of the animation/effect of the TDD being more in line with Tricobalt than Chroniton?

The whole thing just always seemed odd. I have all 5 temporal items and all three fed ships, but I don't use the TDD or the beam array because of the set bonus not really being worth it.

As it stands now, to make full use of the set and bonuses, the weapons loadout would have to look sort of like:

Destroyer
-Antiproton DHC
-Antiproton DHC
-Chroniton Dual Beam Array
-Chroniton Torpedo Launcher

-Antiproton Turret
-Antiproton Turret
-TDD

Science
-Antiproton Beam Array
-Chroniton Dual Beam Array
-Chroniton Torpedo Launcher

-Antiproton Turret or Beam Array
-Antiproton Turret or Beam Array
-TDD

If you were to change the damage type to Chroniton, at least we could put the TDD to the fore and have it as our sole projectile. I tried the above destroyer setup for a while, but it just felt too all over the place and went back to the old standby of 3 DHC + Quantum up front, 3 Turrets in the back, which is sad because after spending the kind of resources it took to get these items, I'm flying around in basically a pricey fleet escort that I can't change the bridge on or make the mirror universe version look like the regular universe version, despite that being the case with all other mirror ships.

Sorry, I know that reads as being negative, but just my observations. I like the ship, those are just the nitpicks I have with it. I've only recently started posting after playing a long time and this stuff has been bottled up for a while.

Thanks again for the ship!
Ensign
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1
# 93
02-15-2013, 06:06 AM
For me tricobalt was just fine, in pvp you fire once...if the enemy see it or even run 50 engine power and max impulse (not full impulse) its good to run faster than the mines and maybe the torpedo, making it hard to hit non-stationary targets.

also, hey they die to 1 shot, any AoE like fire at will, scatter vollet, grav well, tyken's rift, the specially desingned point defense system or KDF's friend aceton assimilator, can stop it without effort. shields also break down the damage of these weapons so the enemy also must have no shield.

yes, i used to hit with 550K dmg each mine...but hey, its a very specific build that gives away tanking ability, but that was buffed and needs 5 mins to recharge them all. no buffs and they hit 40-50k each mine, that if straight to the hull on an enemy under attack beta 2 effect.

now to the range, tric warhead draws way too much attention so fire from long range is nearly useless. mines? unless you know where is the enemy going they will not even trigger. ok, get close to the enemy and fire the mines. they'll stand there for a few seconds until activation, thats more than time to react counting they kinda shine when they do...for a stealth mine, emmiting a satelite signal is not very smart.

so overall, you must get within tractor beam's range of an unshielded stationary distracted enemy and hope for him to not fire at you (as for that much damage you must use TCD consoles and lose cannon power) or your mines for 8 seconds while they activate and move for a chance to kill it, considering you had time to aling your ship and make all mines hit at same time, cuz if they don't, the repel can give time for the enemy to recover or wake up.

if you still thinks tricobalt is overpowered...then just make it less (yes...even less) effective upon a shield by making shields more resistant to tricobalt so a full facing shield would resist an unbuffed strike.

about the bio-neural...was the change to it intended? it has a range limit so you can't just buff, get real close and yell "Surprise!!". i see that 2,5 km is close so not much range to react but when i fire my bio-neural, i move a bit faster than it and if the torpedo is destroied, it detonates on current location...so i often kill myself with it...not hard to avoid it either, but the target still must be stationary and distracted. just the point defense can get a shield facing out and use its own hole.

ps:. i noticed that point defense's damage scales with ship's weapon power....is that intended? not asking for change it just wanna know ^^

Last edited by bralexandre; 02-15-2013 at 06:12 AM. Reason: put info on aceton assimilator there
Lieutenant
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 67
# 94
02-15-2013, 06:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bpharma View Post
6.2k is alright but when you compare it to a photon torp that fires 3 times during that 20s and each one is about 5k the TDD just doesn't really cut the mustard, especially as it rarely reaches the target before the target is dead.



I can see how it would be useful under some circumstances but negh'vars just don't last long enough when I do cure. I tend to do CSE with 2 friends and we all roll escorts. We pop the cubes one by one as just 1 of us can handle the BoPs and later raptors. Which leaves 5 people beating on 3 poor negh'vars. They don't last long enough for a slow torp to hit them. We tend to clear CSE with 7-8 minutes left on the clock. Think our record was 9 mins left.

I guess it's probably more use PvP than PvE but then again I don't PvP much.
No the mines were not overpowered either, to actually kill someone with the mines you had to gear your whole loadout to that effect so as to hold your opponent in place while your mines activated and killed them be that with warp plasma or tractor beams ect however there were viable counters such as mass plcates, point defence, photonic shockwave or shockwave torps and any other number of area effect powers so it was balenced. What annoys me is that they have nerfed the crap out of tricobalts which were being used the way intended but have done nothing to stop people abusing Repulsor beams which are far more devastating than tricobalt mines ever were. Bops are the worst for this just decloaking right on top of you activating repulsors and you are dead before you can even react, the kinetic damage from them is phenomonal and should not be even playing against NPC Typhoon battle cruisers can be lethal. I was doing the pi canis sorties and in my bop full shields and the typhoon activates his repulsors and in the time it took me to activate Polarise hull i was down to 8% hull, utterly ridiculous.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 366
# 95
02-15-2013, 08:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaaahhhhhnnnnn View Post
No the mines were not overpowered either, to actually kill someone with the mines you had to gear your whole loadout to that effect so as to hold your opponent in place while your mines activated and killed them be that with warp plasma or tractor beams ect however there were viable counters such as mass plcates, point defence, photonic shockwave or shockwave torps and any other number of area effect powers so it was balenced. What annoys me is that they have nerfed the crap out of tricobalts which were being used the way intended but have done nothing to stop people abusing Repulsor beams which are far more devastating than tricobalt mines ever were. Bops are the worst for this just decloaking right on top of you activating repulsors and you are dead before you can even react, the kinetic damage from them is phenomonal and should not be even playing against NPC Typhoon battle cruisers can be lethal. I was doing the pi canis sorties and in my bop full shields and the typhoon activates his repulsors and in the time it took me to activate Polarise hull i was down to 8% hull, utterly ridiculous.
What you've said is true, you've forgotten though that there are several targets in STFs that are static and need to be destroyed.

Correctly used before the nerf, they were used by certain people to wipe out the transformers and the gates in ISE and KSE and the cubes in CSE without destroying the nanite generators.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 67
# 96
02-15-2013, 08:29 AM
Oh yeah I am aware of that abuse I was just talking about PvP however to nerf in this fashion is like going after a fly with a shotgun. It will probably not even fix the problem as what is to stop two players deploying the mines in tandem. I don't see why they just didn't make the Nanite Transformer untargetable until the generators are destroyed anyway or make it have a ridiculous damage resistance until the generators are dropped.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 187
# 97
02-15-2013, 09:13 AM
I am getting really sick of all these nerfs. As an stf player you spend a lot of time and resources working out what works best (in this case, I really enjoyed playing my tric escort build), then cryptic decides to nerf it. So now I have to work out the new best build, and I bet that too will end up being seen as the next OP item destined to get nerfed. If you think about it, it is a never-ending cycle that will always end up with everything good in the game being nerfed until everything is as mediocre as everything else.

It is the same with getting dilithium, fleet marks or anything else, players find the best/easiest way to do it, cryptic looks at their stats, sees that people are doing things just one way, see that as an exploit and then over-kill it!
"He tasks me. He tasks me, and I shall have him. For every doff box bought, I'll chase him round the Moons of Nibia and round the Antares Maelstrom and round Perdition's flames. For every single doff box opened, I stab at thee from hell's heart. For every single doff contributed, I spit my last breath at thee..." Khan Playing STO
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,000
# 98
02-15-2013, 09:44 AM
kaaahhhhhnnnnn I don't like being misquoted, I don't agree with the tric mine nerf as I stated on page 8. What you quoted me as saying I was talking about the temporal disruption device, I was also not talking about PvP but PvE. After what shar487a said I can see why it is how it is for PvP and how it can be a powerful and annoying, high damage shot but it's just not useful for my PvE games as things die too fast by cannon fire.

While we're back on tric mines, I think you hit the nail on the head about giving the gates and cubes a high damage resistance before the probes/gens/transformers are destroyed. I wouldn't like the gates to be untargetable unless they weren't allowed to shoot you, if they stay targetable you can use jam sensors to run away. I did however think the previous nerf they did which made tric mines do more consistent damage and lowered the damage of a crit was a step in the right direction.

I think the main problems are generally caused by AP:A, GDF and FOMM all at the same time creating such a massive damage difference between the 3 classes.

Never known repulsors being that powerful, I've heard some grumble about it but figured it's a PvP gripe, in PvE it does bugger all damage just like all other sci skills.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,201
# 99
02-15-2013, 09:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bpharma View Post
Sorry the 5k damage was what I was seeing off my photons in actual damage, not base. My mistake, but still at 3000 damage and a reload of 6s it will out DPS the TDD on it's own. The high yield version does pack more wallop but with the CD increase to was it 1min(?) or something to me only makes it useful in very rare $4!t hitting fan PvE situations.
I am not disputing that high sustained DPS is excellent for PVE purposes. However, TDD's and TCD's are intended for spike damage as opposed to sustained pressure damage (DPS). Spike Damage tactics attempt to overwhelm the target's defenses with short duration + very high damage burst attack, usually destroying the target outright if executed properly. The latter also works very well against larger-than-normal PVE opponents like borg cubes. Unfortunately such tactics usually involve abilities with very long cooldowns (FoMM, GTF, Tac-Fleet, etc).

High DPS builds are easy to achieve with end-game gear and a proper DPS skill rotation. I farm PVE Fleet Actions with high DPS builds, usually taking 1st or 2nd place and their corresponding purple drops.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bpharma View Post
I don't PvP so I can't comment on it's use in that fashion. In PvE the TDD is just not worth it as I said, I run with 2 good friends and we all have very high damage, most things die before the TDD or high yield version reaches the target which makes it a waste of what could be a photon torp, transphasic cluster etc. which would consistently do more damage to targets.
I also have a fully geared Mobius, and I place the TDD aft for the 3-set Temporal Inversion ability while using a front-mounted Hyper-plasma launcher as the primary forward torpedo weapon. Its DPS is also very good, but it goes a step further with access to Temporal Inversion slowing all nearby enemies while buffing movement, attack speed, and ability recharge timers.

EDIT: The Mobius has access to two full-skill-reset abilities: 1) Temporal Inversion and 2) Temporal Backstep. You might as well use both if you want to maximize the ship's survivability and killing power.

Last edited by shar487a; 02-15-2013 at 11:23 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,368
# 100
02-15-2013, 11:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fbreprime View Post
Is there any chance that you could change the Temporal Disruption Device to Chroniton damage instead of Tricobalt? It just seems odd that the Set 2 perk is a 27.4% increase to Chroniton Projectile Weapon Damage, yet that would have no effect on the device that is giving you said bonus.
I always thought this was odd. I had assumed the Temporal Disruption Device would be affected by Chroniton damage boosts, and was in disbelief when I was told otherwise. Seemed like a really stupid set bonus.

"Don't let them promote you. Don't let them transfer you. Don't let them do anything that takes you off the bridge of that ship, because while you're there... you can make a difference." - James T. Kirk
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