Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3
# 121 Thanks for that Stahl
02-14-2013, 08:23 PM
This game is supposed to be fun to play for ALL groups. Now Stahl admits they don't give damn about smaller fleets by making it extremely hard for smaller fleets to get up there.

Thanks Dan for the slap in the face to all small fleets.

This game is NOT supposed to be work! But now you admit to purposely and now openly fighting smaller fleets. Yes you promise to add stuff to help fleets that are struggling with Dilithium and this bull crap Marks system for starbases. But now you've turned the game into work for a large number of people because you want to, and because you don't care enough about us players to actually put a little thought into how you can make it work for all of us.

I love Star Trek, and is why I have put up with your incredible lack of in game content, and increased money squeezing ideas aka lockboxes, which is designed to use player's love for ships, to get them to buy stuff and make money, but to also destract players from the should be unreal lack of actual game content. The game has suffered.

How many true Star Trek fans have you lost because of positions like this one? How many hard core Klingon fans have left because the KDF faction is basically tossing a targ a bone to play with? How many hard core supporters have you pushed away now? The hard truth is STO is dying. Just wait until Neverwinter AND Elder Scrolls Online is released. Those my simple friend, will hurt STO big time, and you know it. Be prepared for it because many of us can no longer let our love for Star Trek keep us in this sorry excuse of a game it has become, and many of us will not, even for the name Star Trek.

When STO was first released Devs kept talking to us players, made us feel important and wanted. Had devs talking all the time and getting our input. Now, we don't feel heard at all because nothing gets done to help us players. Only needless nerfs and more handicaps on players who just want some cool stuff to play with.

So thanks Stahl. Thinking like a Corporate Commander, I completely understand why you leave small fleets behind. Too much effort to include them. Do not tell us you 'plan' on doing something in months. We've played the game too long to see through that lie. I understand your position perfectly. And I don't like what I see.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 120
# 122
02-14-2013, 08:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dastahl View Post
Average max level player refining per day is nowhere near the cap yet. Once the average Dilithium refined per day by max level players gets closer to the cap, we'll consider it.

There are two additional big changes coming in May that will greatly improve a Fleet's abilities to complete projects, I'm just not at liberty to talk about them yet.

We have a small fleet ourselves (with no cheaty dev accounts either) and we're only at T3 - so we understand how challenging it can be if everyone isn't playing the right content or contributing.

We are beginning the tuning process that will get us to where we want to be for the big May update and that includes adding new things and balancing existing things.

Fleet Marks will becoming common rewards for "Group Queued Gameplay" whereas Dilithium will be focused on more solo Mission Gameplay.

We appreciate that there is frustration about losing the Fleet Marks in the Foundry, but Fleet Marks were never intended for solo based gameplay.

Balancing is no fun, but we hear the suggestions that trying to get in the groove with a standard set of content is important. That is where we are trying to go without horking the economy.

And to answer the naysayers - STO had its best month of growth ever and the game is only going to get bigger, expecially this summer. We do look at the economy reports every day. Players ARE earning more Dilithium AND more Fleet Marks than they ever have.

Removing the Marks from the Foundry needed to happen, and since it was scheduled to come off after the Anniversary, it did. We will get Fleet Marks back into more appropriate content quickly as we did after Season 7 launch.

I appreciate that we don't always make good decisions. We do listen to feedback and we do adjust in order to make things better for everyone.
Relying on averages is not a very good way to analyze data, especially when setting maximum tolerances such as dilithium refinement caps. I have hundreds of thousands of dilithium that I can't refine and use on my fleet's starbase - that is why we are so starved on dilithium. On top of that, your team is removing one of the few fleet mark generators my fleet enjoyed doing together aside from No Win Scenario. I'm not sure I understand the logic of taking something like this away and not having a workable replacement ready to implement. What could possibly be the reason to rush this out?

Future promises for May are great....why make the game less fun in Feb-April spoiling your lead into May? Your arguments really do not make much sense (I'm inclined to believe this is because you cannot divulge the real data/reasoning behind them). You say that people are earning more dilithium and fleet marks (not sure if this is per character or not - if it isn't per character then you have a serious data interpretation issue...) than ever before but you just took out what they were using to get both...How is that an argument for the change?
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,477
# 123
02-14-2013, 08:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gr4v1t4r View Post
Guess he does know his Sun Tzu; "If your enemy is secure at all points, be prepared for him. If he is in superior strength, evade him. If your opponent is temperamental, seek to irritate him. Pretend to be weak, that he may grow arrogant. If he is taking his ease, give him no rest. If his forces are united, separate them. If sovereign and subject are in accord, put division between them. Attack him where he is unprepared, appear where you are not expected."
I think you're forgetting that Sun Tzu didn't have to fight the "I Quit" button.
Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 289
# 124
02-14-2013, 08:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gr4v1t4r View Post
Guess he does know his Sun Tzu...
"Be like water" and dry up...
"Dammit J'mpok! I'm a Warrior, not a Worrier!"

- KDF Ambassador Syon vocalizing her objection to the discussions of possible peace talks with the UFP due to recent Borg and Undine activities.
Hegh'bat, Stardate 66588.8
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,628
# 125
02-14-2013, 08:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rinkster View Post
Yup, just sent mine back.

The timing is interesting, don't you think?
Quite so.

Then again, this is PW and I am pretty sure they know who is active on what games.
Ensign
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 26
# 126
02-14-2013, 08:24 PM
Thank you, Mr. Stahl, for making Cryptics intentions clear. Seeing the bigger picture and a glimpse into the original design purpose does shed light onto what I sometimes see as odd game changes. However, two concerns leap to top of mind. Perhaps you could address them as an appendix to the above posting.

1.Putting more dilithium into the players hands HAS happened. That is true. But the dilithium COSTS of many reputation items/unlocks and dilithium store items are considerably high. That would offset the new amount of dilithium put into our hands by quite a bit, would it not?

2.Many players feel restricted to a small range of play-style in order to remain competitive with fellow STO gamers. While this would seem like an obvious characteristic of an MMO, it may be more of an omen to future issues with player base retention. STO really is a great game and I would love to continue spending my free time and free entertainment budget here, with other members of the player community. But, when the realization hits that a particular Elite Special Task Force has been completed around three dozen times and you're still just a bit short on Omega Marks for that last Omega MK XII Space Set piece...well lets just say that STO could lose much of its allure quickly at that pace.

We all want to play STO and love it. Indirectly, that means we want STO to make money so that it can remain accessible. Directly, many of us do not find assembly line styled mission grinding a fulfilling way to spend free time. I can hear the other half of the player base right now typing "then leave, delete your account and go play something else". Yes, that's certainly an option. But if anyone who purchases even occasional Zen or subscriptions were to leave, wouldn't that be diminishing STO for you? If anyone gets bored and moves on to any other MMO, thats less business for THIS MMO. 'Our' MMO I guess you could say. I do not mean to whine. This isn't even intended to be a complaint. I only want all involved parties to insure that STO is a sustainable business model as well as a great and fulfilling way for people to spend their free time and expendable income. This is a balance that should, and can be maintained. It's a balance we can all be happy with for a long time. Is STO balanced in this way at this time?

Last edited by allenscott; 02-14-2013 at 08:28 PM.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 43
# 127
02-14-2013, 08:25 PM
I'm really amused of the fact that they only looked at two really bad industry-standard (and outdated) models for fleet holdings instead of finding a solution that doesn't require the constant antagonizing of their customer base every couple of weeks.

Really at this juncture, STO has returned to the pit that season 7 originally put the game in -- a place that is neither fun nor entertaining.
Republic Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,891
# 128
02-14-2013, 08:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordagamemnonb5 View Post
It's attitudes like this that lead to games going down the drain; people too willing to pay for and accept mediocrity and poor decisions, while failing to hold the devs accountable.
I only yell when things actually effect me I'm in 3 fleets all doing well despite the foundry, unlike some fleets we actually do things together and enjoy each others company we are not in a rush to get to tier 5 even though the KDF fleet I am is getting real close. so meh more Dil less work more free Zen I'm happy.

Paid for by the down with Bajor Party
Ensign
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 16
# 129
02-14-2013, 08:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dastahl View Post

We have a small fleet ourselves (with no cheaty dev accounts either) and we're only at T3 - so we understand how challenging it can be if everyone isn't playing the right content or contributing.


Yes, but there's a very key distinction between my fleet and yours.

I pay for mine. With the money that comes out of my wallet. I buy zen with U.S. Dollars. I was a subscriber until last week. You, on the other hand get paid U.S. dollars for these "challenges", it's your job. I don't.

I pay for the privilege of these "challenges". I'm asking for 50 fleet marks a half hour in return for my time and money. This is too much to ask?

Really?
Seriously?
Dude?

Look, I realize this won't be a popular suggestion, but I'd be happy to convert zen into Fleet Marks at this point. This is about return on my time, Dan. Nothing more, nothing less. You've gone too far into the red on us this time. The current reward structure isn't worth the effort. Put the fleet marks in STF's next week. How hard can that be? Seriously?

I hate to go on and on, though I'm sure it provides great mirth for the "dood, can i has yer stuffs" segment of this conversation, but I really just can't fathom this change, or the attitude behind it. If I could, I'd shut up, even if I disagreed with it. This just strikes me as tragically out of touch with your customers, and the responses you've made here reinforce this.

Would you be so kind then, to aid my understanding, by showing us where your metrics demonstrate paying customers wanted a reduction in their rewards? Or is the order of the day just "because we said so"? Your customers have found a way to play the game that isn't quite how you intended. So? Can't be happy that they're playing the game, and paying your salary? There's certainly no shortage of others out there they could be playing instead. Yes, perhaps you had the best month in your games history. I contributed to that with my credit card by the way. Maybe next month will even be better. I don't know. I do know, speaking from my own experience as a small business owner that this sort of customer dis-service will catch up to you sooner or later. Might be next month, might be next year. You can only throw your weight around so long before people question their spending habits.


Quote:
We are beginning the tuning process that will get us to where we want to be for the big May update and that includes adding new things and balancing existing things.
That's not good enough. If this is the best you can offer, well I guess then maybe I'll log in sometime in May.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,477
# 130
02-14-2013, 08:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by user839020189287 View Post
"Be like water" and dry up...
If I'm not mistaken, the "flow like a river...be like a mountain" pairing comes from a Japanese text, not the Art of War. Way of the Five Rings I want to say (may be botching the title slightly)?
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