Ensign
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 23
# 1481
02-17-2013, 06:33 AM
I quit a game that i played for 3 years because all i did was grind and never had any fun.I look back now and see it was the best thing i did saves me alot of money and time. I see this game dieing because to much grinding at least 50% of the grinding should be removed.How many people can come on here and not have to grinded if you dont you get kick out of your fleet. Well in the next year a couple of big games are coming out this game will loose over over 50% of its players if they dont get less grinding in it so people can have some free time to have fun in it.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,465
# 1482
02-17-2013, 06:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by weylandjuarez View Post
STO may be free-to-play but things like Fleets represent enormous amounts of investment in terms of time and/or money and the players investing their energy in creating these Fleets want STO to be around for a long time - we all do.
Let's put some numbers to this. The amount of dilithium to build a full T3 starbase (assuming one did solely non-dilith needing projects and none of the fluff ) is, per sto-wiki's compilation of projects:

64800 + 216000 + 648000 = 928800 (Starbase tier upgrades)
(32400 + 108000 + 324000) x 3 = 1393200 (Category tier upgrades)
15750 + 108000 + 324000 = 447750 (Transwarp conduits)

For a grand total of 2,769,750 dilithium, or at the current exchange rate of about 90 dil/zen over $300.

I imagine the EC to dilith to zen to dollar calculations on the commodities/doffs/equipment would yield a similarly crazy number. And that's not even taking into consideration the fleet mark stupidity.

And that's just Tier 3.

The point of all this morning arithmetic is this: Cryptic has put into place a system whose sole purpose is to suck the equivalent of thousands of dollars out of their players, yet when anyone raises a voice to ask for improvements to said system they're told, in no uncertain terms, to shut up and offer up another wallet for sacrifice.

Last edited by stirling191; 02-17-2013 at 06:54 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 810
# 1483
02-17-2013, 06:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zix74itaelite View Post
and what exactly would that change? you can only play one character at the time.
and they could scale the thing on account bases instead on counting how many character are in a fleet.
In order for what I propose to work correctly, it HAS to be based on number of characters, not number of accounts. If based on accounts, then one person (counting as one member) could have five characters each used to grind marks and dilithium, thus dividing a cost that is already scaled down by five making it easier for that one person to meet the requirements. That's the same thing that the largest fleets are able to do with the arbitrary non-scaling costs that exist now. With enough people, they can laugh at the cost.

By basing the footprint on how large a fleet is, and have the footprint not get any smaller even if the fleet loses members, coupled with the daily limit on how many new characters can be added to a fleet, scaling costs will maintain the equilibrium between small and large fleets in terms of how much progression will cost.

Assuming everyone pulls their weight in a fleet in terms of contributing marks and dilithium, then a small fleet will progress at the same speed as a large fleet.
I personally want a Star Trek game that is actually Star Trek. On a qualitative level that could be a lot of different things for a lot of different people. But on a quantitative level, if the developers were to watch star trek and make the game like what they see, then at least it will be a shot in the right direction, as far as I am concerned.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,292
# 1484
02-17-2013, 06:44 AM
Making a T5 base should only be the realm of the super fleets - or if it takes a 300+ person fleet 10 months as it is right now then a 25 person fleet should take at least 2 years.

That said after several super fleets have reached T5 - perhaps they could open up a General Fleet store where all fleet gear/ships could be sold at a significally higher cost than at the fleets starbase - to account for the massive resources that people put in to reach T5

so for example a T5 ship or gear would cost at least 3 -4x as much - this would be fair as it would make up for the lower investment that those people made.
Ensign
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 27
# 1485
02-17-2013, 06:51 AM
I think there IS an amount of dedication here that is given just because some of us are Trek fans. I walked from WoW (guild leader moved our lvl 25 guild to another server without a word, we all logged in one day and found we'd lost our guild, our guild bank, and all associated benefits) and Rift (devs shut down a server and forced an overnight move to new servers, guild leader was not online at the time the move was forced and it fractured our guild across multiple servers) and SWTOR (real life friends fought with our guild lead and quit playing so I quit) without a backward glance. Admittedly, I have had unusually bad luck with guilds prior to joining this game. I find I am no longer comfortable in a large guild/ fleet. Period. No matter how stable or long-standing it appears.

I guess I differ from others in that I am on the whole happy with the game. I do understand the points others are making about grinding and bugs so this is not a criticism of those concerns at all. My point is that this ONE change, and the associated announcements regarding fleets, was all it took to turn one of your players off from a game they loved. I am still here hanging on in these forums because I AM a Star Trek fan. I am certainly never motivated to hang on to WoW forums despite playing WoW for years.

I need to hear that the balance the devs are trying to achieve INCLUDES a balance between small and large fleets. I need to hear you won't deliberately squash the teeny fleet I finally found that I am willing to settle into.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,465
# 1486
02-17-2013, 06:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by smallrouge View Post
I need to hear that the balance the devs are trying to achieve INCLUDES a balance between small and large fleets. I need to hear you won't deliberately squash the teeny fleet I finally found that I am willing to settle into.
Here's the thing...

Based on Stahl's posts in this thread, they're not bothering with either. It's pretty much "go zerg fleet or GTFO of the fleet holding system".
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 305
# 1487
02-17-2013, 06:53 AM
I definitely think pricing has become an issue. Rather than offering a lot of things for a small amount of money/ dil each, they have gone the route of releasing fewer and fewer things which cost a phenomenal amount.

C-store prices and dil requirements have gone up and up and up, the purpose of MICRO transactions has been forgotten. I personally would happily spend more money, but I want more for what I'm spending at the moment.

Having single items, that are part of a set, taking hundreds of thousands of marks and tens of thousands of dilithium is a joke. And these issues that are being experienced are merely a symptom of the inflated pricing system that exists now to rake in as much money from the big spenders (ie, the idiots who drop like $300+ on lock boxes), while preventing many people from spending smaller amounts here and there in order to get things.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 810
# 1488
02-17-2013, 06:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by solomace View Post
Nice. Very smooth. Way to get your point across.

Thought you were better.
Both sides of this debate have been spewing bile at each other. I'm pissed off at cryptic's latest "screw the players!" move as the next guy. But this thread has moved so fast with so many hate-glazed comments that any constructive attempt to present a SOLUTION gets burried.

So read what I proposed. If you disagree with it, then fine. Let's discuss it. If the devs do not know after the first 149 pages that we are overwhelmingly dis-satisfied with what they arbitrarily decided to do, then they won't realize it in whatever comes after. We're angry. We feel like Cryptic doesn't really have a clue what their customers want. Another hundred or thousand posts saying so won't get us any closer to a solution. So that's what I am aiming for. Not to poke jabs at you or to be poked by jabs from you. Bickering amongst ourselves is pointless.

I consider myself to be a fair minded person. But being fair-minded does not mean I cannot also be blunt. It's how I roll. If someone takes offense at something I say, then perhaps I hit a nerve. It is not my intent to offend. Just to observe and point out possible solutions.
I personally want a Star Trek game that is actually Star Trek. On a qualitative level that could be a lot of different things for a lot of different people. But on a quantitative level, if the developers were to watch star trek and make the game like what they see, then at least it will be a shot in the right direction, as far as I am concerned.
Ensign
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 27
# 1489
02-17-2013, 06:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by born2bwild1 View Post
Making a T5 base should only be the realm of the super fleets - or if it takes a 300+ person fleet 10 months as it is right now then a 25 person fleet should take at least 2 years.
Disagree with the first part. As I have said, small fleets have Vice Admirals that need decent gear just like large fleets. However, I agree with the second part. I think members of small fleets already accepted it would be a harder road for them. Harder didn't equal impossible though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by born2bwild1 View Post
That said after several super fleets have reached T5 - perhaps they could open up a General Fleet store where all fleet gear/ships could be sold at a significally higher cost than at the fleets starbase - to account for the massive resources that people put in to reach T5

so for example a T5 ship or gear would cost at least 3 -4x as much - this would be fair as it would make up for the lower investment that those people made.
This is a very interesting idea, though 3-4x as much might be harsh. Think in terms of fleet module cost. Consider how many players are not joining a fleet now until they reach T4... are those players to be likewise subjected to increased costs relative to their fleetmates?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 100
# 1490
02-17-2013, 07:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjexcimer500 View Post
Keep the customers happy; happy customers keep paying.
Make the customers unhappy; unhappy customers go somewhere else.

Here is what will keep us happy:
Forget the metrics that warn you that your year old additions to the game might be achieved this year by many gamers who worked diligently to obtain them; and instead concentrate on creating new missions and new content for us.

Eliminate the different marks - take the Omega/Romulan/FM and make just one mark.

Reduce the grind! Increase the fun!
Every mission, including the episodes should earn marks and dilithium. You've already created some awesome missions - which can be played by a fleet (that's what my fleet does) - if you truly want us to have more and less grind - give us marks/dilithium for completing them.


In short - give us more across the game grid.

We are your customers. We are the ones spending our money for the product you produce. We are not metrics.

Improve the product and improve your income.
Yes, you have my vote to be the PWE chairman!

In one post you said everything we ever dreamed and developers never did.

The developers have done a good job in the anniversary episode, everyone liked. Why can not continue the good work?

More confusion like this and we not need to have the eighth season!
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