Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 758
# 1541
02-17-2013, 11:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by baddmoonrizin View Post
REWARD CHOICE

I propose that the Reputation System use one currency: Reputation Marks. All Tracks will use the same Reputation Marks, eliminating the need to keep track of a potentially endless number of different Marks for each Reputation Track added. Omega and Romulan Marks will need to be converted to Reputation Marks if this were to take place. Another reason this should done: What good will Omega and Romulan Marks be once players have maxed out those Reputation Tracks and unlocked everything in the respective stores? Surely, you don?t want players to completely abandon STFs and New Romulus once they?ve maxed out those Reputation Tracks. So what would they do with extraneous Omega and Romulan Marks?

?But what?s to stop players from exploiting that by just running Romulan missions and using the Reputation Marks earned there to level up and unlock items on the Omega Track??

Well, nothing I suppose. But to be honest, how is it an exploit? You EARNED the Reputation Marks, and the Reputation System is about developing your character. So shouldn?t you have a say in how you spend those Marks? And I?d much rather have that, than to keep track of a dozen different categories of Marks. The Reputation System has endless potential, and as I?ve already said, a potentially endless number of different Marks for each Reputation Track added, which would make the Reputation ?economy? cumbersome over the long haul. Streamlining it now would avoid a headache in the future.
I disagree with turning reputation marks into one universal mark. They maybe called mark but they aren't really a "currency" they are more of an "experience measurement." So in order to gain special romulan skill traits this shows you've completed x number of romulan mission to obtain the requisite marks which only make sense. If you were to never run an STF why would this person obtain experience in borg skills?

As for what to do with your left over marks... they can be traded for dilithium and I propose they be traded for fleet marks as well since many of the missions you obtain the reputation related marks are from group activities.

I do like many of your other ideas but didn't copy them over because of the post length. All missions should reward an optional choice of needed commodities.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 186
# 1542
02-17-2013, 11:51 AM
For all those who are convinced the game is fine I have a question for you.

Its fine that people can't slot Bridge officers, without using multiple workarounds?
its fine to have one of the Que'd matches, have spawn issues, IE lack of spawns, Lack of respawns, Lingering mobs that normally warp out
a Cloaking bug that has been in existence for over 2 years
Oh and I saw a tweet from Branflakes that said to avoid using Engineering team.


These are fine?
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 829
# 1543
02-17-2013, 11:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebumble View Post
Then perhaps we should take their business practices to the interweb and let people know exactly who is running that next cash cow, and how they've run their previous ones into the ground.

I have to admit, Neverwinter looked really good, until this last patch left a bad taste in my mouth towards anything Cryptic and PWE. I've already told my friends, both online and off, to take a wait and see approach to Neverwinter before investing any money.

I just have this funny feeling low levels will be a breeze, with pre-built missions, to suck you in, then they'll hit you with the same grindfest STO has become later on at higher levels.

I'd say more, but I'm still waiting for my invite to beta for being an STO Lifetime Member. If that ever happens...
It won't do any good even if an organized effort to "take their business practices to the interweb." And I will tell you why.

Right here in the midst of STO where these policies and practices are directly in our face, for every one of us who openly reject it, there are five to ten who openly embrace it. They are hooked on the grind. they are the people who joined MMOs after WoW who know nothing other than themepark mechanics that lead players from A to B to C and have them jumping through whatever hoops are necessary to get that new shiny.

This debate itself has demonstrated that even among those of us who are upset with the latest patch there are many who has embraced the grindfest philosophy. Which ones? Anyone who asks "Why did you take FMs out of the Foundry?" rather than asking "Why do we have to grind for FMs anyway?" The former are enslaved to the notion that they must grind and are only really concerned about how to best go about doing it now that the IORs are gone and theire previous "best source of FMs" no longer offers it. The latter are those who have spoken of the game's potential that is not even being reached for.

I put myself in the middle of these. I understand the grinders' perspective, and I also understand the anti-grinders perspective. I am in line with the latter but recognize that the themepark-only nature of the mainline MMO industry has trained the majority of MMO players to be good little grinders. Many don't even realize that they have been conditioned. They skip past dialogue in missions, cut to the action, collect a reward and move on to the next. The "go here, kill this, collect treasuer, rinse and repeat" model has most of them going, "just bottom line it for me and let me get at it."

This is why the so-called foundry "exploit" missions were at the top of the list in terms of popularity. Mechanics say we have to grind this and that. Foundry provided BOTH this and that. Foundry Authors, who were also part of the gotta-grind group, Learned just enough of foundry development to create missions that catered precisely to what the game decrees we are "intended to be doing."

STO does not pretend to be anything other than a gear-centric MMO like WoW and the many clones that have risen up to fall flat on their face. That's why I say that unless there is a significant change to the development process, or unless someone spends millions of dollars to buy STO from PWE, it will not become anything more than what it is.

You see, the current development and business model WORKS. For PWE. Many of us think it stinks, but like I said, as long as people keep spending money in spite of that model and out of acceptance of that model, it will remain the model of choice.

I understand WHY Cryptic has embraced the model they have. It's the only thing that guarantees them real profits without real production. That's how PWE wants it. PWE already spent approximately 25 million Dollars on Star Trek Online. That's counting the two MMO birds in the hand that came with the purchase of Cryptic, both worth 25 mil apiece. So yeah... they already paid 25 mil for Star Trek Online. They do not want to pay any more for it. They want it to be what they get money out of, not what they have to put money INTO.

The Devs are not profiting from this. PWE is. PWE would pay the existing Dev Team whatever the agreed-upon contracts allow for. Any revenue above and beyond payroll and operational expenses goes into the corporate coffers from which exectutive bonuses are paid to the suits who tell the devs what they will or will not do, but have no direct hand in development.

I do not think that Dan is sitting there like some sort of rogue cowboy yelling "Yeehaw!" as he plots to screw customers over. The suits tell him to do what it takes to keep expenditures within X price range and to see to it that profit represents Y percentage of the pie. Remember, he said that the removal of FMs HAD to happen. Because when you look at it, keeping them difficult to obtain even though RD remains easier to obtain than before ensures that it will take longer for the average player to complete the grind, and that many will still be working on it when the next grind comes out that will require more dilithium and marks.

And they are counting on the "gotta-grind" crowd to get it in their head that they HAVE to be working on all reputation foci and fleet holdings at the same time, rather than taking things in stride. Some have even said that they were under a false assumption that before you get MK XII you have to have MK XI, and before you get MK XI, you HAVE to get MK X. Once you hit Vice Admiral, you can grab MK XII. And when they get around to adding Admiral and Fleet Admiral ranks, unless they tie them to a five-tier progression system that requires Dilithium and some new form of Mark, the MK XIII, MK XIV, MK XV, etc will be grab-able as soon as one levels up accordingly...

So yeah... Because of the expectation of their corporate masters, Cryptic has no choice but to push us down this road we are on, whether we like it or not.
I personally want a Star Trek game that is actually Star Trek. On a qualitative level that could be a lot of different things for a lot of different people. But on a quantitative level, if the developers were to watch star trek and make the game like what they see, then at least it will be a shot in the right direction, as far as I am concerned.
Career Officer
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 623
# 1544
02-17-2013, 11:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikefl View Post
I liked the beginning the way it used to be. Most MMO's take much longer to get to end game. I liked it better when it took a few months to level up a character to 50 and you had to play ALL the content to progress your character. I remember having to do patrols and story and some deep space encounters to make sure my character was leveled properly as I trekked through the various sector blocks. All we do now is play through to about romulan space and now your level 50 with no need to play any further except to grind your life away on a handful of missions to further your character through obtaining commodities that the rest of storyline doesn't provide. There has to be some middle ground to put all the old content to better use.

Truth be told, IMHO putting in that 700 Day Veteran skill boost was a mistake. Unless of course the intent was to get as many toons to level 50 as possible so they can by dilithium to hurry there grinding.

At least make that skill boost optional.
Most JJ Trek hate = IDIC fail.
Quote:
Most who don't like the new Star Trek either didn't like TOS, don't remember TOS, or didn't see TOS
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 149
# 1545
02-17-2013, 11:59 AM
At last the light bulb has lit up!

I think I know what is wrong here...

It's not the "grinding on the farm" vision that is wrong...

It's how we, the players, are positoning ourselves at our PCs that's causing the real problem.

We just need to morph into the correct type of players needed...

pm me for the link so I don't get moderated, but you will laugh your rear end off!
P.S. This is hosted on my web server in my domain so the content is approved.


Note this is meant to be humor and humor only to lighten this thread up at little since it has been a very long and sometimes fustrating period now.

Zeus
Creator of Olympus - Home of the Gods
"I don't test my code often, but when I do I test it in Production"The most interesting dev in the world

I rather be a fence post in Texas than the King of PWE

Last edited by zeus16nbs; 02-17-2013 at 12:44 PM. Reason: Removed the link per sirsitsalot's request...Still I hope it got you to laugh a little!
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 829
# 1546
02-17-2013, 12:06 PM
Please, Zeus... Take that down before you get moderated... If they have to moderate this thread too much, they will close it, and it is worth more open right now.
I personally want a Star Trek game that is actually Star Trek. On a qualitative level that could be a lot of different things for a lot of different people. But on a quantitative level, if the developers were to watch star trek and make the game like what they see, then at least it will be a shot in the right direction, as far as I am concerned.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 59
# 1547
02-17-2013, 12:14 PM
Sirsitsalot has made a really good point about this. Why do MMOs always have to be a grindfest? I want to just fly around with my buddies and play a Star Trek Experience. If Cryptic maybe added FM and Dil rewards to other missions like Featured Episodes, then people wouldnt be so bored and mad at grinding.

And dont stop with just FMs, maybe add more Borg and Romulus Missions as well. And dont make them long and impossible, but make them interesting and fun to replay over and over.
The possibilities are endless, but really the only thing holding Cryptic back is a budget set by PWE sadly.
"The Easiest Day, was Yesterday"
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,107
# 1548
02-17-2013, 12:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by captainamericax View Post
Sirsitsalot has made a really good point about this. Why do MMOs always have to be a grindfest? I want to just fly around with my buddies and play a Star Trek Experience. If Cryptic maybe added FM and Dil rewards to other missions like Featured Episodes, then people wouldnt be so bored and mad at grinding.

And dont stop with just FMs, maybe add more Borg and Romulus Missions as well. And dont make them long and impossible, but make them interesting and fun to replay over and over.
The possibilities are endless, but really the only thing holding Cryptic back is a budget set by PWE sadly.
::: nods ... What people like about FMs with the Foundry mission is that its an added reward away from the grind that is given for playing FRESH and UNIQUE content within this game. Plus we as players have choices in which type of Foundry missions we wish to run.

As well as many foundry missions work well for team play as well as solo.

A HUGE thank you to Cryptic for the Mogh-class battle cruiser!
Ensign
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 22
# 1549
02-17-2013, 12:31 PM
is this a fracking Joke i just did a foundry mission which used to give 940 dilithium and 50 fleet marks now it is only giving 652 dilithium. you people need to get your heads on straight how is this better?? answer this is getting ridiculas

who is gong to join me in going to planetside 2?

Last edited by prestonpool; 02-17-2013 at 12:43 PM.
Ensign
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 23
# 1550
02-17-2013, 12:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by prestonpool View Post
is this a fracking Joke i just did a foundry mission which used to give 940 dilithium and 50 fleet marks now it is only giving 652 dilithium. you people need to get your heads on straight how is this better?? answer this is getting ridiculas

who is gong to join me in going to planetside 2?
It is a joke because they think it is better thats the problem!
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