Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 73
# 151
02-14-2013, 08:39 PM
As for larger fleets, they get slapped in the face with these changes as well.

I will tell you that the larger fleets with high level starbases are getting where they do not want new members. Fleet Admirals with tier 3 / 4 starbases worry about people donating 500,000 fleet marks to their smaller homey fleet then leaving coming to the big fleet and then buying gear and goods from the fleet starbase and after they have taken the inventory down in the big fleet they leave fleet and return to their small fleet where they give the "majority" of donations.

When someone from a big or mega fleet hears tell me what starbase level you are on then more often than not they do not want that player. A lot of tier 4 / 5 starbases got there by doing the 1000 point missions rather than the 500 point missions that also stocked their stores. There are some tier 4 / 5 starbases that do not have well stocked stores. And there are a lot of new players looking for tier 4 / 5 fleets with stocked stores and they arent always wanting to join them to be on good pvp teams.

Leaders have more trouble trusting new members and new members have trouble being in fleets where they are not "trusted". Lots of bigger fleets have had endless boring meetings about who gets to buy from stores and who doesnt and what they have to do to earn the rights to buy from fleet stores. It doesnt matter if you have a tier 5 shipyard if ship provisions are set at zero in it.

Chintzing out on commodities to build and stock starbases is just a bad idea.

Cryptic obviously wants people to have to work harder to earn the right to buy from them but its a bad idea. There are a lot of empty malls these days because Mall owners took for granted their customers willingness to do a lot of walking to shop.

These are stupid, horrid changes. And it comes from the Cryptic mindset of wanting to micromanage and gate their players experiences and make the game less fun for them so that players who stick around can feel they "earned" something rather than played the game and had fun.
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,477
# 152
02-14-2013, 08:40 PM
Originally Posted by user839020189287 View Post
Shhh... superior text imo and from a real person.
Hey, wisdom's wisdom whether it comes from a hot dog vendor, Buddha or an apocryphal historical figure.

Originally Posted by gr4v1t4r View Post
Sure he did, ever heard of desertion? "Regard your soldiers as your children, and they will follow you into the deepest valleys; look upon them as your own beloved sons, and they will stand by you even unto death."

There's a lesson in here for someone....
I can accept that premise. Personally I wouldn't have argued that the playerbase are analagous to Cryptic's army (would have gone with the populace or possibly the economy), but I can see where you're coming from.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 163
# 153
02-14-2013, 08:40 PM
As a member and leader of a few small fleets, at least one for each faction and all here since the release of STO, where most of my fellow members have either abandoned the game or left for an extended, undefinable period, the removal of the fleet marks from the Foundry with nothing to replace it *HURTS*.

Yes, we have the small handful of fleet mark-rewarding queueables, but you try grinding fleet marks off of those and you'll go nuts. Not only that, but without a full group of people I know and trust populating these fleet mark queueables, it often ends in virtual tragedy for a variety of reasons (chief among them being AFK'ers).

Even if I wasn't in a small fleet, what if I were in a larger fleet where members aren't all in the same timezone or schedule as me? Maybe I end up playing alone or with only one other anyway? Maybe I like quietly working on stuff alone to support my fleet at times.

In the end, there just isn't a viable alternative to gaining fleet marks without going through the same few queueable missions over and over again, assuming the teams doing them even succeed enough to get more than a few fleet marks.

It was a mistake to remove fleet marks from the Foundry without having an alternative ready. At the very least, could have lowered the amount of fleet marks awarded by ten or twenty, would still be preferable to the queueables over and over and over again.

The fleet marks rewarded by the Foundry missions also introduced me to some particularly fun, well-crafted missions, and I doubt I'll be playing many more for some time now if I'm spending most of my time trying to get my fleets' starbases operational. Some of us did play something other than the fleet mark-grinding Foundry missions.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,607
# 154
02-14-2013, 08:41 PM
You may have had a somewhat reasonable rationale for removing the IOR di rewards the way they were before, but you still have completely missed the mark. Moving the rewards to another mission or giving time scaled rewards isn't going to resolve the fundamental problem with STO: lack of content and us playing the same missions over and over and over and over again for months on end. All Cryptic has to show for is 1 new mission here or there every 4-6 months. Well, that isn't going to cut the mustard anymore. If you want us to play like fleets, rewards need to be decent again for completing missions and more missions need to be released. Maybe base the rewards on how full the party is to incentivize people to play together? Allowing fleets to merge is another good start. The other thing Cryptic needs badly are more omega and Rommie STF's. Once you get more mission content rolling out again, then removing the high rewards will be perceived as legitimate. Until then, it just looks plain unfair from our end.

Last edited by knuhteb5; 02-14-2013 at 08:43 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 858
# 155
02-14-2013, 08:43 PM
Originally Posted by dezit View Post
I'll be honest, I was gone for a while and only just returned. I'm in a fleet I founded just over 3 years ago. We're a small fleet, under 25 active members. Many of the members are lifetime subscribers and have been in STO since launch. Here are my thoughts:

When I first came back and saw the new Fleet Holdings, my first thought was they were way too expensive for a small fleet like ours. We'll take for ever to max out. Going off topic, I also found the game to have gotten very grindy. As well, $20 for a Fleet ship! WTF? I've purchased over 40 keys which have yielded very little and nothing I was at all excited about. That's $40 for almost nothing!

I'll be permanently done with STO the moment a new MMORPG I like comes out.

$20 for a ship!?!?!?
I know its not an mmo but the new trek game comes out april 23rd and at least it will provide and alternative to this grind fest. So who knows maybe I can get my trek fix that way.
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5
# 156
02-14-2013, 08:46 PM
*incoming wall of text*

Originally Posted by dastahl View Post
Fact Check:

3. Data shows, most small Fleets are far more starved for Dilithium than they are for Fleet Marks. There is need for both, but more need right now for Dilithium than Fleet Marks - thus today's change. More Fleet Marks are coming - just not in Foundry play.
^ this right here is a straight up lie.

i came from Discovery Freelancer where it was a lot simpler to grind. theirs only one person thats grinding away at finishing the patch ( good luck " cannon ") but their was one currency. ONE! what was it called : credits.

their was a couple of ways to get it. some very easy, some very hard.

i was part of a mining guild called the Independent Miners Guild (IMG for short.) pirates wanted our credits, bounty hunters couldn't get enough people recruited to collect the credits. and the militaries wanted their fingers in everyone's pie's in the aspect of tolls, taxes, and fees.

mining. it was simple. almost better then STO in that respect and a few others. like one simple currency. and that it was straight up F2P, no P2W. however, paying to keep the server online through donation was encouraged, but not recommended or enforced.

and then theirs the downsides

it was farily easy to see who had credits-on-hand and by a range of how much, how many users were in a particular system, and the names of said users ships. and the lag, omg the lag. it did not help that the server was located somewhere in Europe and i'm living in Michigan.

and it did not help that a particualar group of pirates were always after our group's credits. the bounties did not even put a dent in the problem. it became very fustrating. including the lag. STO has not only gotten to that point, it has surpassed it.

the best part of it all was : i could see how much a pirate had in credits on hand and see where he was at the time. it was also helpful that, for the most part : the devs and admin team ACTUALLY listened to the users rather then listening to a couple of select members. all because the dev's and admin were actual users that actually made their money the same way the rest of the comminuty did.

the best part of it all was the fact that the dev's and admins ACTUALLY listen to the community. instead of the dev's and admin teams here only listening to their group of friends.

here's to hoping STO goes by the way fo CoH's
The young generation has no clue what freedom is. Because they do not know the limit of it.
Disenchanted for all my Characters

Last edited by ram86; 02-14-2013 at 09:08 PM.
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 6
Issues i think are main problem is not whether we need a handicap on the fleets but better dailies or missions that give fleet marks, I am a fleet mark grinder, i can run all the mission and get the max. however i find the time that it takes is rediculous for the small amount of fleet marks you recieve. Before season 7, there were dailies that has been removed which crippled the amount of fleet marks per person or fleet would be able to gain. Today i knowest that the federation having 3 left and the klingons only have one. The current mission are yah dull, or require too many people to run which make the wait time unbearable. I waited over an hour just for any fleet mark mission to queue. On top of that i cant say how many time i played them and been like come on we killed everything and the starbase is still standing and only get this much fleet marks. oh and the event times they dont work if your fleet members are scratttered accross the world.

1. Create daily mission that a Fleets can do for fleet marks a set amount like 30-50
a. completion should be based off completing objectives in the mission
1. have sub-objectives that could fail but if completed increase the amount by 5-10 fleet marks
2. Current mission should have total fleet mark you can recieve explained before you start the mission it so puzzleing how much you gain off them.

3. Make it possible to run current team missions with a choose of reward fleet marks or dilithium...

up date fleet items to make upgrading fleets more appealing. current fleet items are basically lower quality then rare drops and or reputaion tier 2 items. this is also why there is a greater amount of people working on the repution rather there fleet projects.

Last edited by leonthestrong; 02-14-2013 at 08:59 PM. Reason: another thought
Career Officer
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 627
# 158
02-14-2013, 08:47 PM
Looks like the IOR nerfbat has brought up another issue, lack of content.

This has been brought up alot, especially by those that quickly tired of tagging bunnies on New Romulus.

Please answer how tagging bunnies seemed like a good idea?
How the Devs see Star Trek, apparently:
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,607
# 159
02-14-2013, 08:48 PM
I feel like Dan and company's decision to remove IOR rewards is similar to the TNG episode where data goes crazy and takes over the ship:
Republic Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,036
# 160
02-14-2013, 08:48 PM
Originally Posted by dastahl View Post
1. Fleets under 25 are going to have a hard time completing projects = by design.
I wish you guys had been more upfront about this before fleet came out. I'm in a pretty small fleet, and we knew it would be a harder road, but communication prior to fleets coming out seemed to indicate it would still be reasonably doable by even very small fleets, just taking a lot longer.

This really ins't the case, and now most of my fleet isn't playing regularly anymore and I feel stuck in this fleet that is just barely not even T1. Being a small fleet I have what feels, to me at least, a very large investment into the fleet, so just to find another fleet doesn't seem like a good deal. Additionally, since all my resources went into the Fleet and Reputation systems, I don't really feel like I can bring much to a fleet as is.

On the fleet mark earning side of it, I wish there was Fleet Mark content as rewarding as STF content for time spent. The amount of Fleet, or even Romulan, marks and dilithium you get from those activities is a bit meh. At least Romulan Marks can be made easier with epoh tagging.
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