Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,173
# 1641
02-17-2013, 09:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sirsitsalot View Post

I do not like the idea that you guys want us to pay you to play a game that feels more like a second job. Dan, you said "We want players to do this" and "We want players to do that."

We do not work for you. You provide a product we enjoy and we will be happy to pay you for it. But you need to stop producing this in a way that makes players play how you want them to play. For one thing, the community becomes fractured, and another thing, people get bored. Both of these lead to people leaving and therefore not spending money.
I have written many posts about "Playing as Intended" and you speak to the heart of the matter, because the Fleet mark debacle is merely a symptom of that. People need to recognize it like you do, and I think that this is part of what is peeing people off, really.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 119
# 1642
02-17-2013, 09:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bizzarquestion View Post
I absolutely agree a small fleet should be a 'project' but I also agree that it shouldn't be impossible. As stated even a proper sliding scale will cause small fleet still take a decent amount of time but still be plausible in this game's lifetime.

Anyway...Power to the People! Keep up The Good Fight!
The problem with the sliding scale or any scaling down of projects based on Fleet size is exactly as has already been mentioned. Larger Fleets will just reduce their membership in order to complete projects faster and cheaper, and then invite members back after completing said projects.

And wasn't it said that project resource amounts were based on having 25 members in the Fleet? If so, then obviously a 500 member Fleet is going to have an easier time than a 5 member Fleet. But the whole reason why there are 500 member Fleets anyway is so they can complete those projects that much faster. If there were a sliding scale based on Fleet size, there would never be Fleets larger than 25 members.

I feel sorry for the low level Fleet members that are going to get booted from their Fleets once Fleet Starbases and all its assests start hitting Tier 5.


See my suggestions to revamp playable factions at: FACTION REVAMP: A PROPOSAL TO CRYPTIC STUDIOS
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 30
# 1643
02-17-2013, 09:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stardestroyer001 View Post
You missed the whole point of my post.

I am creating an ideal situation for people to remain in the fleets they are in, due to familial/language/country/friends/RP/etc reasons, and still be able to get rewards without having DStahl's option A used, or the current option B (severe toll on fleet members to progress).

This situation would allow people to reap the benefits of a large fleet without having the drawbacks of not enough members, while still retaining their existing small fleet.

Note that it is not merging fleets. Merging involves mixing the fleet rosters together and taking the best starbase. That is not what I propose.

Since most small fleets would not be content with simply having members and no donations to fleet projects, I inserted the ability to donate only. This way, it reduces the amount of provisions used up by fleet members, allowing fleet projects for the smaller fleet to progress without having to re-provision.

Sure, it doesn't really benefit the player. But fleets are NOT about the player. Fleets are about being a part of something bigger, and supporting them.

And yeah, it's not the best idea I've come up with. You are more than welcome to improve upon the three-fleet concept and build on it.

[...].
I still don't understand how your ideal way is suppose to help smaller fleets to achieve their starabse?
In what you are saying, it would just allow player beeing in MegaFleet X and Tiny Fleet Y to contribute and get stuff from Mega Fleet x + to contribute to Tiny Fleet Y without getting anything from it.
so it means contributes X2 = grind x2

How is this suppose to scale the small fleet starbase progression at all ?

And yes you miss the point of this thread : its not about small fleet able to buy things it is about small fleet and their starbase progression !
And overall it is about people in small fleet having to GRIND and let the FUN off the way all along
this is the point of this thread

My fleet is only doing the 1000xp projects (meaning no provisioning ones > virtually what you are proposing) and we struggle to get it progressing

Now what you are suggesting already exist :

1 .me from my Tiny Fleet Y, just have to temporary quit my fleet,
2.go buy my way into Mega Fleet X so i can buy there whatever i want since i have a lot of lifetime fleet credits to be spent;
3. Come back to my Tiny friendly fleet Y

It is very easy to find now a T4 fleet and soon a T5 willing to let you buy ships/provisions from their store in eschange of few millions EC.
A Disenchanted player

Last edited by hussere; 02-17-2013 at 09:41 PM.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 36
# 1644
02-17-2013, 09:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by baddmoonrizin View Post
Larger Fleets will just reduce their membership in order to complete projects faster and cheaper, and then invite members back after completing said projects.
The best proposed solution to this is when you create a fleet you choose (or since you already have a fleet once this 'regulation' is implemented you choose), your fleet size limitations. You choose to be a max size of 50 and even if you have 15 people you will always be paying for that size. You will also never be able to exceed nor change that limitation.

Anyway...Power to the People! Keep up The Good Fight!
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 182
# 1645
02-17-2013, 09:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by badname834854 View Post
I have written many posts about "Playing as Intended" and you speak to the heart of the matter, because the Fleet mark debacle is merely a symptom of that. People need to recognize it like you do, and I think that this is part of what is peeing people off, really.
Couldn't agree more with you, I made a post about that myself too. However, I'm sick of being handled and forced to play as intended. Untill this game becomes fun again instead of a massive grindfest I am taking a break. I logged in to change the title of my KDF alt, and that's all I did since thursday and all I plan to do untill something changes around here. If they don't want to listen to us but go by metrics, I'll make sure that I won't be giving them the idea that I'm enjoying the game as it is.
Lost and Delirious... and Disenchanted too
D.Stahl on Epohh's: instead of being stuck grinding rabbits in the slums
IRREGULAR CritD and CritH via EXTENSIVE TESTING
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 275
# 1646
02-17-2013, 09:56 PM
My fleet has around 116 members, we have been around for a VERY long time, the fleet started around the time the option to create fleets were made available, after everything that happened we are now down to about 5 active members, and thats ranging from once a day for a couple hours or once a month, my embassy is still tier 0 and starbase is halfway to tier 3 what we lack the most is fleet marks and Dill if it wasn't for that we would have been top tier long ago. Now I'm not one to quit and abandon my fleet for somebody else that might have better stuff, I try VERY hard to do my part. I am one of the top ranking officers and i control holdings, the way I see it is if members are active and that I see that they have jumped in the donations list, thats a good way to show me they want a promotion.

How can 5 "active" members possibly meet the expectations of finishing projects? Right now the devs made my VERY hard situation a million times worse, I want the best for my fleet and I have tried my very best to give it to them....Why are they punishing us?
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,049
# 1647
02-17-2013, 10:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stardestroyer001 View Post

Have the ability for a player to be able to join a maximum of three fleets; however, only one fleet can be set to "primary" fleet.
This thread is far too long for me to keep track of, but I really like this idea.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 119
# 1648
02-17-2013, 10:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bizzarquestion View Post
The best proposed solution to this is when you create a fleet you choose (or since you already have a fleet once this 'regulation' is implemented you choose), your fleet size limitations. You choose to be a max size of 50 and even if you have 15 people you will always be paying for that size. You will also never be able to exceed nor change that limitation.

Anyway...Power to the People! Keep up The Good Fight!
Then how do you retroactively institute this on existing Fleets? I tell you, a sliding scale will have Fleet leaders lowballing their membership for the reduced costs in projects. Then what happens to the "excess" members? They get booted, and all the work they put into the Fleet is lost to them except their Fleet Credits. They're left with attempting to join another Fleet of comparable level to the one they were just kicked out of, and I say attempt because recruiting will cease, no Fleet will want more members than the maximum allowed for the minimum expenditure; or start a new Fleet and have to start all over from scratch.


See my suggestions to revamp playable factions at: FACTION REVAMP: A PROPOSAL TO CRYPTIC STUDIOS
Ensign
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 24
# 1649
02-17-2013, 10:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by baddmoonrizin View Post
Too many people to quote, but I agree with the sentiment of NOT merging smaller Fleets.

The smaller Fleets are small because they choose to be. I am one of those 1-man Fleets that Mr. Stahl has mentioned. I'm a 1-man Fleet because I choose to be, and I acknowledge the fact that it will be harder for me to level up my Starbase than if I recruited 500 members. But that's ok. I knew that going in. And I'm not asking for any reduction in costs for Fleet projects. MY Starbase is my long term "project" in STO. And I don't want to lose what I've personally built and invested in through some merger.
I agree 98% with this!!

What I don't agree with is that it's not OK......I did NOT know this when my fleet was created waay back in head start before the game launched. This whole Large Fleet favouritism stinks.....I and my fleet mate have been perfectly happy to not join other larger fleets for the WHOLE time leading up to this.........but now we have ACTUALLY discussed leaving our beloved head start fleet.......NO Why the hell should we? FIX THIS.....if you can't create an option for smaller fleets to have the same access to shiney sparkly pixels that the large fleets do.....then quite simply get out of making games.

You COULD introduce fleet ship limitations......like perhaps a daily allowance of fleet ships and mods BASED on the membership numbers of fleets.....per account if you want to be really scroogey.

But no......still as Blebbington said it's odd that the fm nerf happens just after certain 'spesh' fleets hit t5 eh?
Lieutenant
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 36
# 1650
02-17-2013, 10:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by baddmoonrizin View Post
Then how do you retroactively institute this on existing Fleets? I tell you, a sliding scale will have Fleet leaders lowballing their membership for the reduced costs in projects. Then what happens to the "excess" members? They get booted, and all the work they put into the Fleet is lost to them except their Fleet Credits. They're left with attempting to join another Fleet of comparable level to the one they were just kicked out of, and I say attempt because recruiting will cease, no Fleet will want more members than the maximum allowed for the minimum expenditure; or start a new Fleet and have to start all over from scratch.
There has to be a minimum that a fleet can select to prevent said 'exploit' from happening. If you have a fleet of 167 you would not be able to select a maximum fleet size lower than your current fleet size.

Anyway...Power to the People! Keep up The Good Fight!
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