Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,223
# 161
02-14-2013, 07:48 PM
Hey now New Romulus also gave us enemies with ooooooober grenades that wipe out entire parties of level 50 bridge officers in two hits. It's not all bunnies.
--------------------------------------

"We are smart." - Grebnedlog

Member of Alliance Central Command/boq botlhra'ghom
Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 289
# 162
02-14-2013, 07:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stirling191 View Post
Hey, wisdom's wisdom whether it comes from a hot dog vendor, Buddha or an apocryphal historical figure.
True enough. Even Bazooka Joe had much to say on things little read.
"Dammit J'mpok! I'm a Warrior, not a Worrier!"

- KDF Ambassador Syon vocalizing her objection to the discussions of possible peace talks with the UFP due to recent Borg and Undine activities.
Hegh'bat, Stardate 66588.8
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 12
# 163
02-14-2013, 07:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by olivia211 View Post
So in this massive posting you said "We're not giving this back. Too bad."

Also, this whole thing about "leave your feedback here and we will look over it" was more of a stahl tactic to buy time until you all released something like this, trying to explain why this was done.

Fact is I don't want to wait months while you figure things out. If you make a change this drastic to the game, you need to have something to replace it now...not months from now.

But I have to hand it to you. You got me. You got me good. Got me for plenty of cash. Well played. Don't spend it all in one place.
Got a few of us. Myself included. I won't say how much I have dumped into this game. I stay as I am a die hard Trek fan, have been since I watched TOS when I was a child (won't admit to my age there either). And..."as of now"..STO is the only Trek MMO...I pray that it will change. If another comes out, STO will ghost town faster than Chernobyl. Now as a buisness owner myself, I understand that profit is the key. But when you bend the customer over and give it to him/her over and over and over without giving back? Your doomed to fail.

Or have you NOT seen the numbers playing decline there Dan? Too much is spent on C-Store items (I refuse to call them the "Z" word). And not enough on content.

As much as it pains me to say it, STO is like the Titanic...it's sinking...fast.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 148
# 164
02-14-2013, 07:51 PM
"Fleet events" are not fleet gameplay.

"Fleet events" are not fleet gameplay.

"Fleet events" are not fleet gameplay.

If I queue for a fleet mark event and get put into a group where none of them are in my fleet, then it's no different from puging an STF, or S24, or the Mirror event. That is not fleet gameplay, because actually working together as part of a fleet has nothing to do with it, yet I get fleet marks anyway. Doing a fleet starbase alert is no different to me than playing S24, because that's not my starbase I'm defending at all. Repelling saboteurs from the starbase cargo bay might as well be done in the ESD cargo bay for all that it's representative of fleet gameplay.

1) Get rid of fleet marks as a reward for individual missions. Replace them with gear, dil, EC, whatever. Keep the missions themselves, because they're content, but remove fleet marks as a reward.

2) Add fleet marks as a reward for doing content, any content, while teamed with one or more fleet members. Take the mission's expertise reward, divide it by 5, then award that number of fleet marks if teamed up in a full party of fleet mates, 80% if there's four of the same team, 60% for three, and 40% for two. Make this a bonus reward for anything done as a team, whether it's episodes, STFs, mirror event, or anything else. This rewards actually playing together with people in your fleet and makes fleet marks a reward for true fleet gameplay.

I'll repeat this one last time: "fleet events" are not fleet gameplay just because they reward fleet marks.

Last edited by lancemeszaros; 02-14-2013 at 07:58 PM.
Ensign
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 9
# 165
02-14-2013, 07:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by reximuz View Post
I wish you guys had been more upfront about this before fleet came out. I'm in a pretty small fleet, and we knew it would be a harder road, but communication prior to fleets coming out seemed to indicate it would still be reasonably doable by even very small fleets, just taking a lot longer.

This really ins't the case, and now most of my fleet isn't playing regularly anymore and I feel stuck in this fleet that is just barely not even T1. Being a small fleet I have what feels, to me at least, a very large investment into the fleet, so just to find another fleet doesn't seem like a good deal. Additionally, since all my resources went into the Fleet and Reputation systems, I don't really feel like I can bring much to a fleet as is.

On the fleet mark earning side of it, I wish there was Fleet Mark content as rewarding as STF content for time spent. The amount of Fleet, or even Romulan, marks and dilithium you get from those activities is a bit meh. At least Romulan Marks can be made easier with epoh tagging.
The fact is, they said the exact OPPOSITE of what they're saying now before Fleet bases launched/as they were launching.

They're line was "oh, smaller fleets will still be fine, it will all even out and not be much harder" Now he wants to say it's "by design"? Lies. Pure and simple.
Captain Jason A. Kendall
U.S.S. Indianapolis NCC-94668
90th Special Operations Task Force

Last edited by assimilatethis02; 02-14-2013 at 07:56 PM.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 483
# 166
02-14-2013, 07:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dastahl View Post
Fact Check:

1. Fleets under 25 are going to have a hard time completing projects = by design.

2. We will be adding more Fleet Marks, just not on Foundry missions. We will be making several changes up until the May update in order to bring Fleet Mark earning back in line: including reclassifying the difference between Events and Fleet Actions, Adjusting (increasing/decreasing) Fleet Marks with a focus on giving more Fleet Marks in Fleet Based Events, Possibly merging Fleets, Possibly offering other incentives for Small Fleets.

3. Data shows, most small Fleets are far more starved for Dilithium than they are for Fleet Marks. There is need for both, but more need right now for Dilithium than Fleet Marks - thus today's change. More Fleet Marks are coming - just not in Foundry play.
What I read;

1) I'd rather have the small Fleets pissed off at us than the LARGE 100+ member Fleets.

2) I'm going to go ahead and CRIPPLE the small Fleets, knowing full well there is going to be issues and we've identified solutions and we'll implement those later...maybe.
But it's absolutely critical we hobble the small Fleets, NOW!!!

3) We knew that Dilithium wasn't an issue when we went ahead and slashed rewards from STF's and Daily Missions mere months ago even though that was our justification.
Wow, you guys were right when you said you needed all the Dil you could get!!!
My bad.
I know what I can do to help!
I'll remove Fleet Mark rewards so you'll have a hard time getting BOTH!
Small Fleets = PWNED...TWICE!
NO to ARC...Keep it in Beta

RIP KDF 2014-07-17 Season 9.5
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 11,014
# 167
02-14-2013, 07:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lancemeszaros View Post
2) Add fleet marks as a reward for doing content, any content, while teamed with one or more fleet members. Take the mission's expertise cost, divide it by 5, then award that number of fleet marks if teamed up in a full party of fleet mates, 80% if there's four of the same team, 60% for three, and 40% for two. Make this a bonus reward for anything done as a team, whether it's episodes, STFs, mirror event, or anything else. This rewards actually playing together with people in your fleet and makes fleet marks a reward for true fleet gameplay.

I'll repeat this one last time: "fleet events" are not fleet gameplay just because they reward fleet marks.
Thank you.

Fleet missions just have starbases. Nothing to do with fleets.
http://i1151.photobucket.com/albums/o633/centersolace/189cux9khvl6ojpg_zpsca7ccff0.jpg

So inhumane superweapons, mass murder, and canon nonsense is okay, but speedos are too much for some people.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 9
# 168 churn > loyalty?
02-14-2013, 07:57 PM
Is it a possible side-effect of F2P that an MMO might make more money off churning new players than retaining loyal ones?

It would explain many curious decisions in more than one F2P MMO. Just a thought.
Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 405
# 169
02-14-2013, 07:57 PM
Your numbers are skewed crypic. Yes, fleets are more starved for dil than fleet marks, but that is because the crazy ratio between them. 4k fleet marks and 300k dil for one project. Gee, I wonder which one is going to take more time to fil.

Your goal is to make money, plain and simple. What you have done is remove a large potential for that. See, a small fleet is much more prone to spend money on dil to complete a fleet project sooner rather than grind for it. I never mind dropping 10-20 bucks here and there to fill out a huge dil quota in my small fleet. Large fleets are MUCH less prone to do that when they have so many members and don?t have a potential problem filling these projects in a shorter time frame. Now, there isn?t a real reason to buy dil because with soooo many more ways to get dil than fleet marks, I might as well not buy any because I?ll have the dil filled before I even get close to filling the FM.

I have a fleet of 2 active people, me and my brother. I don?t want to be in a large fleet and I don?t want other people in my fleet. He and I have slowly grinded (ground?) our way to a tier 3 shipyard over the last few months. I am very sick of the argument that we don?t deserve to get fleet stuff with only 2 people. I disagree. We have worked harder to grind this crap out than anyone with a larger fleet has. We have earned it.

So now the crap I am hearing is that they are going to tie FMs exclusively to 5+ man fleet actions or events. Well that is just perfect. Anything else you want to do to screw us small fleets over?

I don?t want to do STFs. I don?t care about STFs. I don?t want to group with people. I don?t want to socialize. I don?t want to join a larger fleet so I can hear ESD chat everywhere I go. I don?t want to play with other people. I don?t play this game to socialize. I play this game to have my starship, outfit it the way I want, and go PvP. I have NO interest in PvE content. I?ll do it as a means to an end, but every time you patch, you make that end get farther and farther away. Stop forcing me to play with other people. I am sick of trying to convince myself of staying after every patch you do.

Again, I don?t want to do STFs, but you?re trying to make me.
I don?t want to socialize, but you?re trying to make me.
I don?t want to join a large fleet, but you?re trying to make me.
I don?t want to quit, but you are trying REALLY hard to make me.

Just take my money and stop taking away the things I can accomplish solo.
Ensign
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 9
# 170
02-14-2013, 07:58 PM
Have been here since F2P began, and never envisioned myself not liking this game. I am in an under 25 fleet and have made alot of friends and enjoyed the game. I am going to try and explain my view, and then where I see this all going. I have spent money in the game, and bought extra char spots etc, and in the begining wondered how many different characters I'd get to VA, was working on 6, 3 at VA, great!
Then the fleet system was introduced and I was gungho, but at the same time knew I'd be working say half and half, new VA's and new fleet projects now being my new goals, and never had a problem with that trade off, made new friends and was happy, though working less on new chars. Soon the costs of fleet projects had me working 'the system' with 'clickies' to keep up, still doing STF missions with fleet, but really working hard when on alone for the fleet.
Then the reputation system hits and now the game becomes a second job, because hell yes I wanted tier 5 and all the goodies, as do we all, so fleet projects stalled. Get myself to tier 5, and that is alot of work, and cost, but feeling good about it, so start a KDF player and begin its rise to tier 5, now doing daily repeatable stuff to help fleet, and my dil costs. At that point I know its going to be a huge climb, but I am very happy with game, fleet and friends.
Then today happens, and for first time, I realise I am starting to dislike the changes being made to the game, and wonder who actually cares if I enjoy the game or not, so long as I spend money.
Now sure the fleet marks thing hurts, but I can live with it, but the amount of work needed to get one char to tier 5, maybe lets make it scale down cost wise for second and third etc characters so I can once again dream of having 5-6 chars at VA with tier five rep, because really, all I see me doing is riding one char to its best now, because of the costs and the grind.
I do not see new players to the game staying long, when they begin to understand the amount of work they will need to do, too even get to my point, let alone a tier 3 starbase, and even if they do stay, most will just be fodder for the HUGE fleet they joined, making provisions for the high ranking fleet bosses.
I love the game, but I don't see the changes made as being for the good of the game, I don't think its been well thought out. I've played MUD's in the past, and many of those died out, because no new blood came in that stayed, because the old blood controlled the game, had the best clan houses, and the best eq, and controlled the masses. Really, as a noob do you think they are going to ride out the fleet base, the rep system and the grind to get what they want, or join a huge fleet to get it?

For the good of the game, come up with something that lets newer or smaller fleets the ability to grow, and players still have several characters to try out and play and not feel like a grind, I came to live star trek, not grind.
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