Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 622
# 2001
02-18-2013, 08:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by born2bwild1 View Post
so what do I get for having the 2000th post?
The continued dissatisfaction of it being equally useless as the previous 1999.
All cloaks should be canon.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,292
# 2002
02-18-2013, 08:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bloctoad View Post
The continued dissatisfaction of it being equally useless as the previous 1999.
you sir have the winning post of the day!!
Captain
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,030
# 2003
02-18-2013, 08:16 PM
So here's a first pass at a reasonably non-exploitable fleet scaling system.

Fleets are grouped into the following five sizes:

Very Small (1-25)
Small (26-50)
Medium (51-100)
Large (101-200)
Vary Large (201-500)

The number of members in a fleet is determined by the number of characters in the fleet over a seven-day period. (I.e., any time a character leaves a fleet, that character slot is 'reserved' and not freed up for seven days. This keeps churn down, but allows the same character to come back within the seven day period without counting twice.)

The fleet leader can change the size of the fleet at any time. Downgrading to a smaller fleet size is free (as long as the number of fleet members is below the max of the new size). Upgrading to a larger fleet size causes the loss of one tier. You lose any improvements that requires the tier you lost. You downgrade to the bottom of the lower tier. Example: Your Medium fleet has a tier IV starbase, with tier IV shipyard, tier II industrial fabricator and tier IV communications array, with 10000 Starbase XP, 140000 Military XP, 50000 Engineering XP and 110000 Science XP. After you upgrade your fleet to Large, you would have a tier III starbase, with tier III shipyard, tier II industrial fabricator, and tier III communications array, with 8000 Starbase XP, 50000 Military XP, 25000 Engineering XP and 50000 Science XP. If you decide to upgrade right there to Very Large, you'd go down to a tier II starbase with tier II shipyard, tier I industrial fabricator, and tier II communicatinos array, with 5000 Starbase XP, 25000 Military XP, 10000 Engineering XP and 25000 Science XP.

At the time of conversion, all fleets are automatically Very Large, and it's up to the leaders to downgrade as desired.

Now this is where the scaling comes in. Smaller fleets pay less resources for their projects, but they take longer, and in the case of projects that create provisions, they create fewer provisions for the fleet. Here are the scaling factors.

Very Small: 20% resource cost, 200% time requirement, 20% provisions
Small: 40% resource cost, 150% time requirement, 40% provisions
Medium: 60% resource cost, 125% time requirement, 60% provisions
Large: 80% resource cost, 110% time requirement, 80% provisions
Very Large: 100% resource cost, 100% time requirement, 100% provisions

These scaling factors have two effects: 1) they make it affordable for a small fleet to work on fleet projects while ensuring that a large fleet that has the resources will always be faster and 2) the limitation on provisioning makes it impractical to build up a very small fleet starbase and use it to serve the needs of a large fleet by rotating members through.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 36
# 2004
02-18-2013, 08:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by born2bwild1 View Post
so what do I get for having the 2000th post?
You get three cookies and 600 FM. Oh too soon?

Anyway...Power to the People! Keep fighting The Good Fight!
Career Officer
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 949
# 2005
02-18-2013, 08:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by elessym View Post
So here's a first pass at a reasonably non-exploitable fleet scaling system.

Fleets are grouped into the following five sizes:

Very Small (1-25)
Small (26-50)
Medium (51-100)
Large (101-200)
Vary Large (201-500)

The number of members in a fleet is determined by the number of characters in the fleet over a seven-day period. (I.e., any time a character leaves a fleet, that character slot is 'reserved' and not freed up for seven days. This keeps churn down, but allows the same character to come back within the seven day period without counting twice.)

The fleet leader can change the size of the fleet at any time. Downgrading to a smaller fleet size is free (as long as the number of fleet members is below the max of the new size). Upgrading to a larger fleet size causes the loss of one tier. You lose any improvements that requires the tier you lost. You downgrade to the bottom of the lower tier. Example: Your Medium fleet has a tier IV starbase, with tier IV shipyard, tier II industrial fabricator and tier IV communications array, with 10000 Starbase XP, 140000 Military XP, 50000 Engineering XP and 110000 Science XP. After you upgrade your fleet to Large, you would have a tier III starbase, with tier III shipyard, tier II industrial fabricator, and tier III communications array, with 8000 Starbase XP, 50000 Military XP, 25000 Engineering XP and 50000 Science XP. If you decide to upgrade right there to Very Large, you'd go down to a tier II starbase with tier II shipyard, tier I industrial fabricator, and tier II communicatinos array, with 5000 Starbase XP, 25000 Military XP, 10000 Engineering XP and 25000 Science XP.

At the time of conversion, all fleets are automatically Very Large, and it's up to the leaders to downgrade as desired.

Now this is where the scaling comes in. Smaller fleets pay less resources for their projects, but they take longer, and in the case of projects that create provisions, they create fewer provisions for the fleet. Here are the scaling factors.

Very Small: 20% resource cost, 200% time requirement, 20% provisions
Small: 40% resource cost, 150% time requirement, 40% provisions
Medium: 60% resource cost, 125% time requirement, 60% provisions
Large: 80% resource cost, 110% time requirement, 80% provisions
Very Large: 100% resource cost, 100% time requirement, 100% provisions

These scaling factors have two effects: 1) they make it affordable for a small fleet to work on fleet projects while ensuring that a large fleet that has the resources will always be faster and 2) the limitation on provisioning makes it impractical to build up a very small fleet starbase and use it to serve the needs of a large fleet by rotating members through.
Nice proposal and more interesting to read than Stahl's statement of the teams lack of creativity or thought with their Option A / Option B failed paradigm.
Ensign
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 16
# 2006
02-18-2013, 08:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by born2bwild1 View Post
so what do I get for having the 2000th post?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bloctoad View Post
The continued dissatisfaction of it being equally useless as the previous 1999.

And that means the forums are "working as intended."
STOP THE GRIND: BRING BACK THE FUN!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 180
# 2007
02-18-2013, 08:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by elessym View Post

The fleet leader can change the size of the fleet at any time. Downgrading to a smaller fleet size is free (as long as the number of fleet members is below the max of the new size). Upgrading to a larger fleet size causes the loss of one tier. You lose any improvements that requires the tier you lost.
No. Anything that takes away from progress already made, is Not acceptable. If you've earned it, you keep it, NO exceptions.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 30
# 2008
02-18-2013, 08:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by elessym View Post
So here's a first pass at a reasonably non-exploitable fleet scaling system.

Fleets are grouped into the following five sizes:

Very Small (1-25)
Small (26-50)
Medium (51-100)
Large (101-200)
Vary Large (201-500)

The number of members in a fleet is determined by the number of characters in the fleet over a seven-day period. (I.e., any time a character leaves a fleet, that character slot is 'reserved' and not freed up for seven days. This keeps churn down, but allows the same character to come back within the seven day period without counting twice.)

The fleet leader can change the size of the fleet at any time. Downgrading to a smaller fleet size is free (as long as the number of fleet members is below the max of the new size). Upgrading to a larger fleet size causes the loss of one tier. You lose any improvements that requires the tier you lost. You downgrade to the bottom of the lower tier. Example: Your Medium fleet has a tier IV starbase, with tier IV shipyard, tier II industrial fabricator and tier IV communications array, with 10000 Starbase XP, 140000 Military XP, 50000 Engineering XP and 110000 Science XP. After you upgrade your fleet to Large, you would have a tier III starbase, with tier III shipyard, tier II industrial fabricator, and tier III communications array, with 8000 Starbase XP, 50000 Military XP, 25000 Engineering XP and 50000 Science XP. If you decide to upgrade right there to Very Large, you'd go down to a tier II starbase with tier II shipyard, tier I industrial fabricator, and tier II communicatinos array, with 5000 Starbase XP, 25000 Military XP, 10000 Engineering XP and 25000 Science XP.

At the time of conversion, all fleets are automatically Very Large, and it's up to the leaders to downgrade as desired.

Now this is where the scaling comes in. Smaller fleets pay less resources for their projects, but they take longer, and in the case of projects that create provisions, they create fewer provisions for the fleet. Here are the scaling factors.

Very Small: 20% resource cost, 200% time requirement, 20% provisions
Small: 40% resource cost, 150% time requirement, 40% provisions
Medium: 60% resource cost, 125% time requirement, 60% provisions
Large: 80% resource cost, 110% time requirement, 80% provisions
Very Large: 100% resource cost, 100% time requirement, 100% provisions

These scaling factors have two effects: 1) they make it affordable for a small fleet to work on fleet projects while ensuring that a large fleet that has the resources will always be faster and 2) the limitation on provisioning makes it impractical to build up a very small fleet starbase and use it to serve the needs of a large fleet by rotating members through.
This is the smartest idea that came about fleet scaling;

Tho i might disagree with some points it is something that should be doable.

Now 2 things
_ Obivously and unfortunatly players can't make suggestions about the game devs want us to play regardless of the cost in 'fun' marks to the player, since it seems we are not listened to ; AKA Tribble server feedbacks get the finger.
_ How sad it is you/we have to give suggestions out and do the job in place of cryptic game designers team; That seemed unable to come with a solution as good as you just gave; Making it it option A or B whatsoever not possible to dig more into the concept...


Bring back the FUN;

and what Gravitar said it all bout the FUN and Grind on page 139 again :

Quote:
Originally Posted by gr4v1t4r View Post
Let's be honest, this is about far more then just the IOR. Tensions have been high since about halfway S6 when it became clear that bugs weren't getting fixed, requirements wouldn't be lowered etc. What we see here is what happens when you have a community that's on edge. The smallest additional affront just make thing's boil over. Or maybe a flash over would be a better analogy. This is just like when they took out the STF rewards. By this change they didn't just take away an easy source of fleetmarks, they effectively force us to get them elsewhere. In other words, we are being forced to do things we don't want to do and they take longer then the IOR did too. Our fun just got diminished, and because it takes longer we have less time for things we *do* enjoy. Look at the STF rewards, things stayed unruly untill the item drops where restored. Simply because getting an item, or having the chance to get one, is fun . I never understood why the reputation system had to replace the old system. Those unlucky few who didn't get their tech drops would have had the guarantee of being able to get them, and the rest of us could enjoy looking forward to the lootbag at the end. The dev's keep thinking all we care about is dilithium and fleetmarks, etc. but we don't. If they ever introduce new drop-only gear that can be collected by doing missions with an STF structure, I would play them all day long regardless of them rewarding marks of any kind or dilithium. There no longer are real achievements in this game, it's all about endurance and perseverence now. It isn't rewarding to play this game anymore. All the stuff is either buyable for zen/dilithium, or EC(which effectively is also buyable by zen or dilithium). Sure, you need some marks, running some elites will get you those quick enough. Or I guess grinding down eppohs if you need RM's.

This game as it stands now, has become a grindfest. Now, that in itself isn't that big of a deal. The problem is that a lot of us are not mmo fans or whatever, we are here because of Star Trek. That means that this game has incredible potential, with loyal fans. However, it also means they can't treat us like mmo fans who like to grind all day. Most of us love the IP to much to just walk away, so we will put up with it for a while....But sooner or later, we will reach a breaking point, where even the most loyal Star Trek fan refuses to put up with this any longer. That would mean the end of this game, because aside from the IP this game has nothing to offer. There are several mmo's out there, that from a gameplay perspective are far better developed, there are several that are more fun, etc.

Basicly they have the goose laying golden egg's here, only they keep pushing the goose for more egg's. Hell, they are close to taking a chokehold on the goose and shake it for more golden egg's. At the short term that might work, and the goose will lay some additional golden egg's, but then it will die. Keeping the goose happy and entertained might produce a few daily egg's less, but the goose will lay those egg's for years and years to come.

Stop trying to force the community to spend money, if you present us with enjoyable content, gameplay, bugfixes, fun items, etc. we will gladly give it to you!!!
Bring back the FUN; We want less GRINDFEST.
A Disenchanted player

Last edited by hussere; 02-18-2013 at 08:46 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,030
# 2009
02-18-2013, 08:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyuui13 View Post
No. Anything that takes away from progress already made, is Not acceptable. If you've earned it, you keep it, NO exceptions.
If you don't want to lose it, then you don't upgrade. Or you start off with your fleet at Very Large. If you want the lower scaling costs, then you accept that you might lose progress if you ever decide to upgrade fleet size, but it's always your choice.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 36
# 2010
02-18-2013, 08:45 PM
There have been many suggestions regarding sliding scale costs for fleets. Some good, some bad. The problem is regardless of how well thought out the ideas we have are, the likelihood of PWE/Cryptic actually implementing them is close to nil. They WANT to control us. They WANT to make it difficult for small fleets to achieve success. They KNOW the majority of players are in small fleets. Butts in seats. I have been saying this since they nerfed dilithium back with the introduction of S7.

Anyway...Power to the People! Keep fighting The Good Fight!
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