Ensign
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 16
# 2021
02-19-2013, 12:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nateofborg6 View Post
i think they just need to raise the amount of fleet marks you get in the fleet actions to 70 when the rep isnt on and 100 for them when it is on.
This is so beyond just FMs now. Honestly, I think you are finally seeing months of pent up frustration hitting the breaking point. Even if PW decided to reinstate FMs into foundry missions,or they added more to the events, I would have to respond with "Sorry,not good enough anymore." And I feel that there would be quite a few players standing side by side with me on that.

We are not the contents of our wallets. Our voices will be heard, or our silence will be deafening.
STOP THE GRIND: BRING BACK THE FUN!
Republic Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 227
# 2022
02-19-2013, 12:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by syberghost View Post
Actually, today was a holiday in the US; many businesses were closed, although many others were not. As I don't work for Cryptic or PWE, I honestly don't know if they were in the office today or not; I interact with the community team, and those guys work 365.24 days a year.

And for those unaware, they're in Pacific time, which is UTC minus 8 hours, if this helps you figure out where they are in the work day.



...and I don't think they come in the office that early, so you can get lots more "why is there no response from Dan?" posts in while Dan's still not back at work from the weekend.


Am I the only one?


Join date July 2012 ... My feckin arse ( Feb 2010 )
"The great thing about the internet is its leveling effect; online all opinions are equally WORTHLESS."-- Grant Morrison
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 855
# 2023
02-19-2013, 12:57 AM
What gets me, is the fact that Mr Stahl has posted in a few other forum topics, just a few hours ago, but left this topic to be ignored. I suppose 2000+ posts and 200 pages isn't enough to get his attention.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 80
# 2024
02-19-2013, 01:09 AM
Mr Stahl posted here:
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...hlight=content
about 30 minutes ago.
I guess you should at least give him time to read this thread

Watch out for my Starship Comparator app at
http://ssc.levega.de or http://www.stoshipcompare.tk
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 843
# 2025
02-19-2013, 01:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by patarmarkan View Post
Mr Stahl posted here:
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...hlight=content
about 30 minutes ago.
I guess you should at least give him time to read this thread
Devs - "Mr Stahl, we need to address these issues, the forums are getting out of hand and quite frankly I think we are doing something wrong to the Star Trek intellectual property"

Stahl - *Gives the Dev a stern look and begins to do the Harlem Shuffle*
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,301
# 2026
02-19-2013, 01:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by merrick1992 View Post
Third Shifters, reporting for duty. Keeping the thread going through the night.
lol, yep, just dont forget to take your union breaks ok
Like my Fan Page Here
xXLocutusXx
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 286
# 2027
02-19-2013, 01:47 AM
Tuesday morn here in the uk and still nothing from the devs, I know the time difference but I would have thought that they could at least post from home, just something to acknowledge this thread and our dismay.......

Still say just revert the changes made in the Valantine Day Massacre Patch to the fleet marks, but as stated earlier its become more now.

This could have been nipped in the bud a lot earlier, know I fear whatever the devs do the damage done to the community trust and the STO name can't be repaired.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 386
# 2028
02-19-2013, 01:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by elessym View Post
So here's a first pass at a reasonably non-exploitable fleet scaling system.

Fleets are grouped into the following five sizes:

Very Small (1-25)
Small (26-50)
Medium (51-100)
Large (101-200)
Vary Large (201-500)

The number of members in a fleet is determined by the number of characters in the fleet over a seven-day period. (I.e., any time a character leaves a fleet, that character slot is 'reserved' and not freed up for seven days. This keeps churn down, but allows the same character to come back within the seven day period without counting twice.)

The fleet leader can change the size of the fleet at any time. Downgrading to a smaller fleet size is free (as long as the number of fleet members is below the max of the new size). Upgrading to a larger fleet size causes the loss of one tier. You lose any improvements that requires the tier you lost. You downgrade to the bottom of the lower tier. Example: Your Medium fleet has a tier IV starbase, with tier IV shipyard, tier II industrial fabricator and tier IV communications array, with 10000 Starbase XP, 140000 Military XP, 50000 Engineering XP and 110000 Science XP. After you upgrade your fleet to Large, you would have a tier III starbase, with tier III shipyard, tier II industrial fabricator, and tier III communications array, with 8000 Starbase XP, 50000 Military XP, 25000 Engineering XP and 50000 Science XP. If you decide to upgrade right there to Very Large, you'd go down to a tier II starbase with tier II shipyard, tier I industrial fabricator, and tier II communicatinos array, with 5000 Starbase XP, 25000 Military XP, 10000 Engineering XP and 25000 Science XP.

At the time of conversion, all fleets are automatically Very Large, and it's up to the leaders to downgrade as desired.

Now this is where the scaling comes in. Smaller fleets pay less resources for their projects, but they take longer, and in the case of projects that create provisions, they create fewer provisions for the fleet. Here are the scaling factors.

Very Small: 20% resource cost, 200% time requirement, 20% provisions
Small: 40% resource cost, 150% time requirement, 40% provisions
Medium: 60% resource cost, 125% time requirement, 60% provisions
Large: 80% resource cost, 110% time requirement, 80% provisions
Very Large: 100% resource cost, 100% time requirement, 100% provisions

These scaling factors have two effects: 1) they make it affordable for a small fleet to work on fleet projects while ensuring that a large fleet that has the resources will always be faster and 2) the limitation on provisioning makes it impractical to build up a very small fleet starbase and use it to serve the needs of a large fleet by rotating members through.
As someone else who proposed a scaling fleet system, I support this. I thought of the provision amount reductions yesterday but didn't feel like posting.

Couple points:

- When (if) implemented, fleet leader makes a one time size call with no penalties. Afterwards follows the system as outlined, otherwise penalizes fleets that were always small.

- Resource costs on a per person basis should favour larger fleets (more hands, less work), so your percentages may need to be adjusted.

Another idea I had for a scaled system:

Only Fleet marks earned while a member of the fleet would be contributable to that fleets' projects.

This should stop fleet mark "purchasing". All other inputs are "exploitable".

Thanks again for your post.
I used to have f/x, till my video card took a S9 to the knee...

Last edited by philosophere; 02-19-2013 at 02:04 AM.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 30
# 2029
02-19-2013, 02:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by litchy74 View Post
Tuesday morn here in the uk and still nothing from the devs, I know the time difference but I would have thought that they could at least post from home, just something to acknowledge this thread and our dismay.......

Still say just revert the changes made in the Valantine Day Massacre Patch to the fleet marks, but as stated earlier its become more now.

This could have been nipped in the bud a lot earlier, know I fear whatever the devs do the damage done to the community trust and the STO name can't be repaired.


Well, give time to time

I'm not in the US zonetime but i guess its night-time there and, unless Cryptic are zombies and go to work in the middle of the night you'll have to wait at least till tomorow morning workable USA hours to get a first answer.

As I guess the Dev team would have first to brainstorm before posting anything related to a matter of this amplitude.
This thread is somewhat a lot different to deal with than from asking funny videos to fleets, and really here I'd like to get a constructive anwser from an entire team than a man alone without backup.

Now don't get me wrong here; you may track my posts through this thread and see how much I'm concerned bout the endless grind, the no fun way the game has become for small fleeters, and the ridiculous amount of reward we feel having for the immensly requiring projects.
I'm really this close to quit the game and am sick that I had gone for a LTS seeing the way things are now.

Tho don't get me wrong, but give that to the man and the team to have a chance of doing their job.

There is no way they haven't stated about this thread yet, even on a personal matter if so.
And I'm sure they 'll come with at least a first anwser to the matter by tomorow AKA noon Europe time.

-------

And I +10000 the idea of a scaling system , as some really good suggestions has now come out. See post above.
A Disenchanted player

Last edited by hussere; 02-19-2013 at 02:11 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 855
# 2030
02-19-2013, 02:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by elessym View Post
So here's a first pass at a reasonably non-exploitable fleet scaling system.

Fleets are grouped into the following five sizes:

Very Small (1-25)
Small (26-50)
Medium (51-100)
Large (101-200)
Vary Large (201-500)

The number of members in a fleet is determined by the number of characters in the fleet over a seven-day period. (I.e., any time a character leaves a fleet, that character slot is 'reserved' and not freed up for seven days. This keeps churn down, but allows the same character to come back within the seven day period without counting twice.)

The fleet leader can change the size of the fleet at any time. Downgrading to a smaller fleet size is free (as long as the number of fleet members is below the max of the new size). Upgrading to a larger fleet size causes the loss of one tier. You lose any improvements that requires the tier you lost. You downgrade to the bottom of the lower tier. Example: Your Medium fleet has a tier IV starbase, with tier IV shipyard, tier II industrial fabricator and tier IV communications array, with 10000 Starbase XP, 140000 Military XP, 50000 Engineering XP and 110000 Science XP. After you upgrade your fleet to Large, you would have a tier III starbase, with tier III shipyard, tier II industrial fabricator, and tier III communications array, with 8000 Starbase XP, 50000 Military XP, 25000 Engineering XP and 50000 Science XP. If you decide to upgrade right there to Very Large, you'd go down to a tier II starbase with tier II shipyard, tier I industrial fabricator, and tier II communicatinos array, with 5000 Starbase XP, 25000 Military XP, 10000 Engineering XP and 25000 Science XP.

At the time of conversion, all fleets are automatically Very Large, and it's up to the leaders to downgrade as desired.

Now this is where the scaling comes in. Smaller fleets pay less resources for their projects, but they take longer, and in the case of projects that create provisions, they create fewer provisions for the fleet. Here are the scaling factors.

Very Small: 20% resource cost, 200% time requirement, 20% provisions
Small: 40% resource cost, 150% time requirement, 40% provisions
Medium: 60% resource cost, 125% time requirement, 60% provisions
Large: 80% resource cost, 110% time requirement, 80% provisions
Very Large: 100% resource cost, 100% time requirement, 100% provisions

These scaling factors have two effects: 1) they make it affordable for a small fleet to work on fleet projects while ensuring that a large fleet that has the resources will always be faster and 2) the limitation on provisioning makes it impractical to build up a very small fleet starbase and use it to serve the needs of a large fleet by rotating members through.
I support the above. With one addition:

Make Fleet Membership ACCOUNT WIDE. If I join x Fleet with one of my characters, ALL my characters under the same @handle should be a member of that fleet. That way, you don't end up having a Fleet of 50 main characters, and 450 alts.

The way "Guild Membership" works in for example Guild Wars 2, is that you are constantly a member of every guild you join, and you can join as many guilds as you want. From there, you "champion" a specific guild, which means you are representing that guild with their name/tag, as well as having access to their guild perks. I realize a similar method may be difficult to implement into "Star Trek Grind Online" in terms of Fleet Starbases.

Last edited by meurik; 02-19-2013 at 02:17 AM.
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