Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,805
# 2141
02-19-2013, 10:30 AM
Next time you remove something without an immediate replacement, consider the following;

How would you feel if you turned up for work in the morning and got told "Today we're going to stop paying you, don't worry though in the next few months we'll start paying you again at an increased rate. We're not going to tell you what that rate is, or what you'll have to do to get it, but just trust me."

I think you'd tell them where to shove it, just as hundreds of your player base have done in this thread. Thursday marked the first time in 7 months I haven't logged into the game every day, I have no intention of returning until you make this right.

Stop looking at 'metrics', like that's what's important, and start listening to the people, who really are important.
Join date is wrong, I've actually been around since Beta.
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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 157
# 2142
02-19-2013, 10:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gr4v1t4r View Post
Let's be honest, this is about far more then just the IOR. Tensions have been high since about halfway S6 when it became clear that bugs weren't getting fixed, requirements wouldn't be lowered etc. What we see here is what happens when you have a community that's on edge. The smallest additional affront just make thing's boil over. Or maybe a flash over would be a better analogy. This is just like when they took out the STF rewards. By this change they didn't just take away an easy source of fleetmarks, they effectively force us to get them elsewhere. In other words, we are being forced to do things we don't want to do and they take longer then the IOR did too. Our fun just got diminished, and because it takes longer we have less time for things we *do* enjoy. Look at the STF rewards, things stayed unruly untill the item drops where restored. Simply because getting an item, or having the chance to get one, is fun . I never understood why the reputation system had to replace the old system. Those unlucky few who didn't get their tech drops would have had the guarantee of being able to get them, and the rest of us could enjoy looking forward to the lootbag at the end. The dev's keep thinking all we care about is dilithium and fleetmarks, etc. but we don't. If they ever introduce new drop-only gear that can be collected by doing missions with an STF structure, I would play them all day long regardless of them rewarding marks of any kind or dilithium. There no longer are real achievements in this game, it's all about endurance and perseverence now. It isn't rewarding to play this game anymore. All the stuff is either buyable for zen/dilithium, or EC(which effectively is also buyable by zen or dilithium). Sure, you need some marks, running some elites will get you those quick enough. Or I guess grinding down eppohs if you need RM's.

This game as it stands now, has become a grindfest. Now, that in itself isn't that big of a deal. The problem is that a lot of us are not mmo fans or whatever, we are here because of Star Trek. That means that this game has incredible potential, with loyal fans. However, it also means they can't treat us like mmo fans who like to grind all day. Most of us love the IP to much to just walk away, so we will put up with it for a while....But sooner or later, we will reach a breaking point, where even the most loyal Star Trek fan refuses to put up with this any longer. That would mean the end of this game, because aside from the IP this game has nothing to offer. There are several mmo's out there, that from a gameplay perspective are far better developed, there are several that are more fun, etc.

Basicly they have the goose laying golden egg's here, only they keep pushing the goose for more egg's. Hell, they are close to taking a chokehold on the goose and shake it for more golden egg's. At the short term that might work, and the goose will lay some additional golden egg's, but then it will die. Keeping the goose happy and entertained might produce a few daily egg's less, but the goose will lay those egg's for years and years to come.

Stop trying to force the community to spend money, if you present us with enjoyable content, gameplay, bugfixes, fun items, etc. we will gladly give it to you!!!
^I'm bumping this so that perhaps it won't get lost in the shuffle. it quite nicely outlines many of the issues this thread is about beyond just fleet marks
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 643
# 2143
02-19-2013, 10:30 AM
Quote:
We are not detailing that change until the patch notes hit.
lol, wheneveryou guys dothat, its NEVER a positive change.

thankthe goddess guildwars 2 re-enchanted me this weekend. Their patchnotes don't make me ill.
Leave nerfing to the professionals.
Republic Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 975
# 2144
02-19-2013, 10:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dastahl View Post
As I stated 100s of threads before, additional Fleet Marks are coming.

Will Fleet Marks be added back to Foundry missions? Nope.

Will Fleet Marks be increased on other missions? Yes.

How soon?

As I hinted at last week, you will see changes over the next several month, but the first change will be this Thursday.

We are not detailing that change until the patch notes hit.

Quoted, screen-grabbed and photo-bucketed for reference after Thursday.

I will now adopt a wait and see position... but what has happened I expect there to be a serious improvement.

Both in the QUALITY of the code that is released live... and an equal change to the QUALITY of the "grind experience."

Because really, Dan. No one wants to grind rabbits in the slums. You said so your self.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,963
# 2145
02-19-2013, 10:31 AM
I probably won't be popular for saying this, but I do want to say it since the thread it was posted in has now been closed. (This came from the closure post for the Harlem Shake thread.)


Mr. Stahl, I'm sorry to hear your daughter is sick. I mean that. I hope your job allows telecommuting so you can be there now as well as last night.

In regards to the Harlem Shake thing...I am indeed dismayed by the way the PR and communications have been handled, but there is no personal animus from me. In all seriousness, I truly hoped my post in the first few minutes after yours would get your attention and help you avoid this. I was trying to be gentle. And just the same in my second post, I was still trying to warn you off from something that I could only see hurting instead of helping. :-/

Perhaps you would consider letting Branflakes handle projects like that, since as I understand it, community games are part of his job description. It's "normal," for lack of better words, to have him in that sort of role. Granted I don't know his workload, but I'm sure he'd do a good job, if he has time.

I don't want this community to blow up when it is IMHO completely avoidable. It's both a game and a community for me--and indeed, this community has nearly replaced a sick one that I used to post in a lot more than I do now, because here I feel I can speak and play without constantly getting attacked by other posters. My fleet is that way for me too, and I wouldn't have met them without STO--the only MMO I've ever played (or probably ever will play).

What I am trying to say is this. I want STO to succeed. I want to see things fixed, and I want to see things thought through so that when changes are made, they are the right changes or at least are implemented in a way that helps, not hurts...because I do not want to lose what I've found here. You have the potential here. You have something that can be great. If/when things are fixed, and I am confident things will run more smoothly going forward...heck, I'd like to financially support the game again because even as an F2P player I realize that you have server bills and salaries to pay.

When I am angry or dismayed at what happens here, it's because I do not want to lose this game or its community. Help us to help you.

Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,051
# 2146
02-19-2013, 10:32 AM
--- Deleted own post. ---

Last edited by linyive; 02-19-2013 at 10:50 AM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 186
# 2147
02-19-2013, 10:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebumble View Post
I find it amazing after 200 pages and 2200 posts that all he got out of it was we're mad about Fleet Marks.
Blame shift. Blaming US even though they created the very thing that created the "exploit"
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebumble View Post
Oh Dan, you really need to start looking at the big picture...
to be sarcastic, this would require him to stop looking at his "metrics"
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebumble View Post
On top of that, we get another patch in 2 days that's not on the Tribble server being tested AT THIS MOMENT. Want to bet more things get broken??
Those who do not learn from history, are doomed to repeat it. It seems Dan and cryptic have not read their history.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebumble View Post
Do not let this man placate you with false hope. None of our major concerns were addressed, and in actuality, were glossed over with this hope that MAYBE the 'changes' being made on Thursday with fix the game. The smart people know they will not.
Until he addresses his own statement and what is now my sig for this forum. I won't let him do anything of the sort, he's already proven himself untrustable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thebumble View Post
Its not just about Fleet Marks...

Its about what this game is supposed to represent...
Forrest for the tree. All they see is the tree on fire, not the rest of the Forrest, ablaze.
Next time you log in, ask yourself this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dastahl View Post
If you can't have fun, then what is the point?
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,796
# 2148
02-19-2013, 10:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyuui13 View Post
Thank you for proving my point. Remove all rewards from the foundry, all of them, loot, experience, EC. The reward is the story. Thats all you should need. That is all the foundry authors should need.

If that were to happen, it would likely kill off the foundry completely. Some of the missions are fun, some are fantastically written, but it is the rewards that draws people in to play these things.
When there were no rewards, I never touched the foundry. There simply was no point whatsoever in wasting time with that as everything else had some kind of reward attached to them.

Besides, if the rewards were eliminated entirely not only would the foundry die off but we would have a group of brassed off foundry 'super' authors barging around, mouthing off about how butt-hurt they are. I don't know which is worse!

Sure the foundry in it's recent form was exploitable and flawed, but at least it existed AND had people playing it. If I were in charge of the foundry at cryptic, I would fix the bugs, make the odd adjustment to rewards and leave it at that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer
ARC: A way to Redeem Codes
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,500
# 2149
02-19-2013, 10:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dastahl View Post
As I stated 100s of threads before, additional Fleet Marks are coming.

Will Fleet Marks be added back to Foundry missions? Nope.

Will Fleet Marks be increased on other missions? Yes.

How soon?

As I hinted at last week, you will see changes over the next several month, but the first change will be this Thursday.

We are not detailing that change until the patch notes hit.
One thing has become clear with this reply of yours. You can not do your current job. We have no apology only a vague promise. Well your promises don't mean much anymore. We've all but bang your head with issues and ideas and you just ignore us and do what ever and the sheer arrogance in your last statement is insulting. Even a forum moderator has blasted you on your handling of this issue. So step down Stahl and fine something you can actual do for it is clear you can not do what your currently doing. I wish you the best of luck in any future endeavours....as long as it isn't with STO
Career Officer
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 627
# 2150
02-19-2013, 10:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by daveyny View Post
I've read the whole thread actually...

Have been keeping up since it first opened.

I just don't see any reason to get so worked up over an Online Computer Game.

Things have changed drastically many times since this games inception (including the company who owns it), this is just another change that has come along that has many players in a snit cause it isn't something they like.

A month or two from now there will be another change that causes an uproar and this one will slide to a back burner.

I've been around long enough to know that what I can't change or control, means I have to adapt or go find something else to do.

A game, is not something that I let get the best of my emotions...

Especially when that's one of the driving forces behind companies attempting to get my money.

And this is partly why this game is in the current state. I have said this many times;

Far too many people too willing to accept and even pay for mediocrity and failing to hold developers accountible.
How the Devs see Star Trek, apparently:
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
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