Lieutenant
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 36
# 2411
02-20-2013, 10:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by warbird001 View Post
But that does raise a point, its not Cryptic's fault that the players are always looking for the next exploit. Even if one is there, doesn't mean the players should actually use it. You can steal something from a shop, because the shopkeeper has left it open on the window-side, doesn't mean you should...
As others has stated this is a poor analogy. A better one would be comparing it to a 'magic' candy bowl. This bowl refills itself every 30 minutes. Its Halloween and you set this magic bowl out on your doorstep with a sign that merely reads 'Happy Halloween!'. Now since there is no rule saying that the kiddies can only take one piece what do you think will happen? Do you expect everyone will only take one piece? Or will you expect there be kids ranging the entire spectrum from single-piece-takers to those that will keep emptying the bowl into their bags every 30 minutes?

Now who is to blame for this set-up? Certainly not the kids since you created the situation and never made a restriction to how much a single kid can take. Only that they can take every 30 minutes. Yes I took twice a day and it helped so much with my tiny fleet. But 100 FM is a drop in the bucket that is the Star Base.

But the removal of FM from the IOR is merely a symptom of the underlying issue. People are tired of how the game is being mismanaged. Whether it is Dan or PWE that is to blame is also not the issue. I certainly don't want this to turn into a finger pointing contest. I want the game to be fun again and not grindy tedium.


Anyway...Power to the People! Keep fighting the Good Fight!

Last edited by bizzarquestion; 02-20-2013 at 10:43 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,107
# 2412
02-20-2013, 11:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jam062307
Dilithium is going to be coming out of STFs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordagamemnonb5 View Post
There is no way in heck that anyone could be that inept as to repeat that mistake again.
Ha-ha-ha-ha-haoha-hahah-oooo-hahahahaahhhahahahhhhahahahahahaahaa ... (et al) .

Now seriously .
Offcourse they can do it again .

Never ever ever E-V-E-R under estimate the ppl who took your money to go F2P (while insisting that they were not going F2P) , and who went on to ask the lot of us to pay for a few more months to be their F2P QA team .

DStahl : quick , pull the leaver !
Cryptic employee : the leaver sir ?
DStahl : the "release a new shiny ship to distract the angry masses" leaver !!!
Ce : oh , you mean engage fireworks , fire anti-matter spread , KITT turn on the smoke screen ?
DStahl : ...yes...
"We're not mad at Angry Birds, and we're not trying to defend the universe from Angry Birds. Although you might want to consider defending yourself from Angry Birds. If you aren't paying for the app, you aren't a customer, you're the product ."

- former CIA, NSA chief Michael Hayden -- your guide to F2P ...

Last edited by aelfwin1; 02-20-2013 at 11:14 AM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 234
# 2413
02-20-2013, 11:02 AM
I'm worn out from being herded around so much.

Left to my own devices I chose to do these things:

Explore Strange New Worlds plus Chart the B'tran
*Would have preferred options other than just B'tran
*Never dreamed somebody would someday call this an exploit.
When Chart B'tran was removed I had to look for something else that would give me
similar dil.

Mirror Incursion
It's like a comfortable pair of old shoes to me and a good source of dil especially while leveling up alt characters.
*With the newer content, it's hard to catch this event hour as it's slotted less.

Kerrat
This was my PvP fix, even when I felt like my ship or my own abilities were inferior for the ques I could have some dogfights and earn dil while doing it.
*I rarely even check for the assignment now as it's random and can't be counted on.

IOR
Before all the dilithium sinks appeared, I played foundry for stories. Later,
I did Nagus dailies mostly. I didn't even know about clickies for the longest time but when I found out I jumped right in. It was all getting dumped in my micro fleet starbase anyhow, who could that hurt?

Fleet Actions
When you added dil here, I showed up. That lasted all of a couple days, right? I haven't been back to SB24 since.

Fleet Marks:
For the life of me, I don't understand the disparity in rewards among these missions. It became clear to me early on that even though I enjoyed Fleet Alert and Fleet Defense as much as Colony Invasion, I'd be doing Colony Invasion nonstop. Do I want 22 marks or 31, gee that's a tough one. I remember early on getting -12 marks for Fleet Defense, lol.

Obviously, getting 50 marks in the foundry was salvation. I still played Colony Invasion during the event window, but I didn't have to play EVERY SINGLE WINDOW. I've probably teamed with every player on the server by now, I am that guy that jumps in the village well when we get a perfect score.


So yeah, I went for the exploits in the end. Rumble became timid, timid became afk, and I didn't feel guilty. Even then, all that stuff went right into the starbase.

You prodded me here. If you made the stuff I enjoy more actually worth something in game currency, I would have had a clean record. Now I'm a criminal with forum warnings. I was the guy that reports the AFK'ers in group activities, now I'm an AFK'er that ruined the foundry for everybody?

When you get around to distributing fleet marks, would you be so kind as to up fleet alert to colony invasion levels, maybe higher because it's easier to fail.

Would you please throw some fleet marks to things that can be done solo like exploring the nebulae. Teaming is optional there too, give us that incentive beyond just doffing there.

Also consider that the literati among us, have very nearly to a man/woman chosen to forgo the grind and have headed to the foundry. Many of them wouldn't have seen a fleet mark without that IOR wrapper. What that says about current content I'll leave to you to decipher. Just keep in mind that those actually still playing the content you've released could use more thoughtful consideration. Spread the rewards to all areas of the game, and people like me will still show up for the event windows fairly often. Just don't force me so much.

Lastly, for the sheer astronomical costs of holdings, could you make it a real place, with functionality, and customization. If you know this is never gonna happen, could you tell me so I can just retire to the Foundry with the rest?
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 260
# 2414
02-20-2013, 11:10 AM
Posted a day ago in that "other" thread. But, since I am adding my voice to this, might at as well be in for a penny, in for a pound, and be consistent...


I found it interesting - and somewhat appalling - Dan felt the need to start a new thread to provide "answers" to questions, concerns and, let's face and admit it, blatant accusations (some of which have been ill-mannered) to this VERY large one. Seems a direct and intentional slap in the face, since what was received here was a - very curt and unprofessional, I might add - reply, but not a real response (i.e. answers, rationale, etc.) Many seeing the other thread for the first time do not even realize what has been talked about here in 2000+ posts for several days running, and it has added to the confusion and divisiveness, especially since most of the "discussion" there has been taken very much out of context.

The removal of Marks from IOR is such a small and even insignificant part of all that is being queried and challenged. If you do indeed listen to feedback, Dan and Company, reply to THIS thread and the mainstay of what is actually being discussed: your contradictory statements and actions, the loss of trust in the developers and in the game mechanics, the nerfing of things we grind for after-the-fact, and so forth - the HEART of the matter, not its symptoms and side-effects.

Exploits certainly happen, and I can see where some "bad apples have spoiled the barrel," as far as some of the play goes - I personally have never played any of the Foundry missions. But, what is being expressed is the discontent over smoke-and-mirror policy, double-talk, and heavy-handed dictation of how YOU feel WE should play OUR game. You develop and do the work, sure, but it is the PLAYER base who fund you and who you do it for; at least it was - you have clearly lost sight of that. And, in "100s of threads ago," you yourself declared that this game was not designed to be a grind-fest, and that is was developed "by players, FOR players."

Your disdainful approach to how things are handled shows even more the "we're going to do what we want, and you have to deal with it (or not)" attitude, and your continued secrecy in how and when you do things adds to the distrust. No one wants you to reveal the contents of the "presents" and surprises - we still like anticipation of new things. But, especially when there is a problem and issues you now admit to being handled poorly, we need you to lay out how you intend to deal with the problems, and give us a definite timeline - "in the months ahead" was also when the fully formed and functional Klingon faction was supposed to be in our hands...three years ago. And, a new "oooh, shiney!" is NOT the fix or what we are seeking.

I do appreciate your admission to being "heavy handed" in your decisions to take away something without compensation or balancing, and to even giving out a reply at all. But, since it is not a truly forth-coming DISCUSSION with the player base, I think the majority who have raised issues feel it is not only too little and too late, but just another sidestepping tactic.

But hey, your "metrics bear out that players are happy," right? So, I guess we'll wait for the next time you contradict your own actions and statements to see how long that lasts.

Until then, we'll continue goose-stepping behind you into the Final Frontier...

Fleet Commander
Caprica's Revenge
(...actually active since November 2010, which may one day be important to archaeologists, but not to anyone else...)
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 30
# 2415
02-20-2013, 11:12 AM
well anyway the main issue will still occure :

_ STO is a archetyped based MMORPG meaning : GRIND for stuff, Start-load-repeat-rince kind of missions ; grind in order to be able to grind more.

It has been built on these very basis.

It has been amplified a lot when it went F2P ( P2W in my mind anyway)

It doesn't belong to the new and next mmorpg generation wich are, and will tending to bring less less grind versus more content and unique missions.

The way STO is designed will never end into one of these nex-gen mmorpg kind I've talked about.

example :
In my eyes how much of a waste is New Romulus : You guys designed a great playable zone, really shiny to the eyes, graphically elite. Now all we can do in there is to grindgrindgrind for roumlan marks HOW BORING is that.

Knowing this :

Now all we're asking is for the dev team to go less grind content, and some creativity content for fun game.
A Disenchanted player
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,983
# 2416
02-20-2013, 11:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hussere View Post
It doesn't belong to the new and next mmorpg generation wich are, and will tending to bring less less grind versus more content and unique missions.
Please let me know of any such MMO as I'd really be interested in experiencing it -- because it's certainly not Guild Wars II or The Secret World.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=91861979000&dateline=  1340755546
PWE Drone says: "Your STO community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,020
# 2417
02-20-2013, 11:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by clannmac View Post
I found it interesting - and somewhat appalling - Dan felt the need to start a new thread to provide "answers" to questions, concerns and, let's face and admit it, blatant accusations (some of which have been ill-mannered) to this VERY large one.
Actually, he didn't start a new thread - he posted in a thread that's intent was to appeal to the jaded players of STO - those that think that their opinion doesn't count for anything - to encourage them to speak up and be heard.

Dan's post immediately derailed that thread and whilst I'm prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt, a part of me now wonders if that was the intent all along
Please join our peaceful protest to help make STO a better game
Proudly not contributing to PWE's bottom-line since October 2012
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 30
# 2418
02-20-2013, 11:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by crypticarmsman View Post
Please let me know of any such MMO as I'd really be interested in experiencing it -- because it's certainly not Guild Wars II or The Secret World.
Actually GW2 is a pre state of what mmorpg could have been in the future.
As it has failed in doing such, it was a nice try toward this direction.
The only thing and now the players are to blame : mmorpg players are not ready for a 180? turn into the mmorpg aspect.

In most of mmo player's mind is : grind for sutff, invest time and no matter if repeating 1000000000x a mission is not fun : grind reward the final stuff etc etc etc.
And this is for the best. no question asked.

Now, I'm not a mmo player, im a Star Trek fan; I have not played ( on a long term time said) other mmo than STO; And I've come to this one because it was said to be a good casual mmo kind.

I was wrong. I'm now bored . I get way way more fun playing world of goo. I'm on the edge of quitting STO.
A Disenchanted player
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,570
# 2419
02-20-2013, 11:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by weylandjuarez View Post
Dan's post immediately derailed that thread and whilst I'm prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt, a part of me now wonders if that was the intent all along
You cynical old coot you
I wouldn't be surprised if you were right mind you. It's a use of an obvious tactic to emasculate the "hard core" of the angered masses (i.e. US). It's been used for many years, I can think of one example off the top of my head right now which is the Falklands war of 1982. When the Argentinian economy crashed the then government decided that instead of tackling the root issues, they would appeal to "patriotism" and conquer a long lusted after piece of land that they though would not be defended.

Although that example isn't a great comparison, it does have parallels with the current situation! You see, it's all about distraction. Distracting the majority of the "angered masses" with trinkets, shinies and stuff they might like to see (even though they didn't even know they wanted to see it in advance).

But oh well Kaz, you learn from the best
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer
ARC: A way to Redeem Codes
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 642
# 2420
02-20-2013, 11:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hussere View Post
Actually GW2 is a pre state of what mmorpg could have been in the future.
As it has failed in doing such, it was a nice try toward this direction.
The only thing and now the players are to blame : mmorpg players are not ready for a 180? turn into the mmorpg aspect.
Actually, afterDantold me and my "smallfleet" to gtfo, I returned toGW2 and my stresslevels and happiness are much much higher. my server is pretty dang busy, so I'm notsure where youre seeing failure from. And my small guild there is progressing justfine up the guild trinket ladder.
Leave nerfing to the professionals.
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