Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 289
# 411
02-15-2013, 04:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tobar26th View Post
Ok, but solo players wouldn't typically be in a fleet, therefore awarding fleet marks for solo content is perhaps not necessary?
I started an RP PVP fleet but couldn't get new blood because the potential recruits wanted to join a fleet with an established starbase. When I did try to recruit ingame I had larger fleets make fun of me and some even said that I was just wanting new blood to use for FM and dil slaves...

My fleet was previously a banking fleet so was why it was only me. Was almost to level 1, too. Just had projects and a little bit of Engineering left to knock out... then the changes hit.
"Dammit J'mpok! I'm a Warrior, not a Worrier!"

- KDF Ambassador Syon vocalizing her objection to the discussions of possible peace talks with the UFP due to recent Borg and Undine activities.
Hegh'bat, Stardate 66588.8

Last edited by user839020189287; 02-15-2013 at 04:52 AM.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 276
# 412
02-15-2013, 04:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tobar26th View Post
Ok, but solo players wouldn't typically be in a fleet, therefore awarding fleet marks for solo content is perhaps not necessary?

True. But did all this change though when Fleet bases came out?

People were desperate for something new and Fleet bases were that. These "solo" people then became fleets but still solo. Nothing was said about what a "sweet" spot was, only that the larger the fleet the faster they could build it.

Let people play they want to play that gives them fun.

I cannot image what it's like to grind out fleet marks, but if it meant playing foundry missions over and over again, then let them. I would find it tedious and boring, but obviously some don't (or do, but still do it anyway) to achieve their goal.

Nope, this is about money pure and simple.
From the man himself - "And as far as Season 7 being "grindy" - welcome to the MMORPG genre"

Look into my eyes, look into my eyes, the eyes, the eyes, not around the eyes, don't look around my eyes, look into my eyes, you're under..."Grind is good".
Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 289
# 413
02-15-2013, 04:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by solomace View Post
So the simple fact is why doesn't Cryptic make it that fleets have a minimum requirement of 25?

I don't agree myself and if someone wants to be in a solo fleet of alts or 5 m8s, let them, but don't then turn around and say to these solo fleets, "tough", we designed something based really on 25 or more.
Funny, used to be fleets were designed for under 25. He is flip-flopping.
"Dammit J'mpok! I'm a Warrior, not a Worrier!"

- KDF Ambassador Syon vocalizing her objection to the discussions of possible peace talks with the UFP due to recent Borg and Undine activities.
Hegh'bat, Stardate 66588.8
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 632
# 414
02-15-2013, 04:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by user839020189287 View Post
I guess I been too hard on Daniel "Fleet Marks" Stahl... uh, my bad!
No.. He's earned what he's received. These changes may well HAVE to happen so everything can be in line with what is coming in May. And like I said, with advanced warning would have come massive grabs that would likely have skewed the metrics they need to keep as clean as possible to make sure it all works right come May Day.

The side effect is the rage that comes with any sort of significant change. The screaming is of his doing. I think he knew to expect it, which is why he's been so calm about it. When the tidal wave bears down on you, you either run away screaming or lash yourself to something and ride it out. Kudos to Dan for doing the latter.

The waters are going to remain rough in the wake of the wave that hit yesterday, for a while. The best thing he can do is identify the points of the deepest-seated contention resulting from the change and address them professionally and as directly as possible.

For all I know he could be lying through his teeth. But also, for all I know, He could be telling the absolute truth based on the information available from where he is sitting. Information that we are not privy to and can only make assumptions about. Time will tell the full tale though. And unless we have chosen to subscribe to the game, all it is costing us is time.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
There are many problems with STO that only the Devs can fix. And they should...
At the same time, there are many problems that we are perfectly capable of fixing ourselves. And we should...
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Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 251
# 415
02-15-2013, 04:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dastahl View Post
we left it in as a temporary bonus that would last up through our Anniversary.
Is this stated anywhere or is it revisionist history?
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 276
# 416
02-15-2013, 04:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by user839020189287 View Post
Funny, used to be fleets were designed for under 25. He is flip-flopping.
Who -

"PWE want a full KDF Faction"

"Only some want a full KDF faction"

"We are making the KDF faction a full Faction"

"We are not taking away Dil from STF"

"We have taken away Dil from STF"

We are adding Dil back into STF"

Are we talking about "Judge me by my record"

Nope, no flip flopping here, its what the CDFers call "things change".
From the man himself - "And as far as Season 7 being "grindy" - welcome to the MMORPG genre"

Look into my eyes, look into my eyes, the eyes, the eyes, not around the eyes, don't look around my eyes, look into my eyes, you're under..."Grind is good".
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 83
# 417
02-15-2013, 04:58 AM
"Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master."

Mr. Stah'sl interview regarding small fleets: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UDnTJcjPhY
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 101
# 418
02-15-2013, 04:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by user839020189287 View Post
I started an RP PVP fleet but couldn't get new blood because the potential recruits wanted to join a fleet with an established starbase. When I did try to recruit ingame I had larger fleets make fun of me and some even said that I was just wanting new blood to use for FM and dil slaves...
For most players this is true, but if you can do without all the higher level fleet stuff and just like to play for the fun of it.... start your own and advertise it for what it is, I'm sure you're not the only one.

I personally like the fleet I'm with just due to the players, not how far it is in tier construction. We are lvl 4 but in fed and klingon, but if we weren't I would still stay. Grinding is not fun for anyone, take time to enjoy the game and don't be obsessed with getting the latest stuff. In every mmo there will be better stuff in the future.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 276
# 419
02-15-2013, 05:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sirsitsalot View Post
For all I know he could be lying through his teeth
*Cough*
From the man himself - "And as far as Season 7 being "grindy" - welcome to the MMORPG genre"

Look into my eyes, look into my eyes, the eyes, the eyes, not around the eyes, don't look around my eyes, look into my eyes, you're under..."Grind is good".
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6
# 420
02-15-2013, 05:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dastahl View Post
Fact Check:

1. Fleets under 25 are going to have a hard time completing projects = by design.

2. We will be adding more Fleet Marks, just not on Foundry missions. We will be making several changes up until the May update in order to bring Fleet Mark earning back in line: including reclassifying the difference between Events and Fleet Actions, Adjusting (increasing/decreasing) Fleet Marks with a focus on giving more Fleet Marks in Fleet Based Events, Possibly merging Fleets, Possibly offering other incentives for Small Fleets.

3. Data shows, most small Fleets are far more starved for Dilithium than they are for Fleet Marks. There is need for both, but more need right now for Dilithium than Fleet Marks - thus today's change. More Fleet Marks are coming - just not in Foundry play.
Point by point responses:

1) So fleets under 25 are hampered by design. Wow, that's just bad design decision. That is a big disincentive for a small group of friends to get together and start a fleet. That's not amenable to casual players or those who wish to play with RL friends. Just not player friendly at all. It would have been nice if you had been honest about this sooner, say at Season 5.

2) Promises, promises. Rather than take a more intermediate step like a longer cooldown timer (3 hours, 6 hours, 20 hours) for the IOR wrapper mission as an intermediate step, a total void is left. So for 3 months, we have to wait and see what possibly flawed solution will show up in May. Let me fall back to two tried and true phrases on this promise, "Show me!" (thanks Missouri) and "I'll believe it when I see it".

3) If small fleets are starved for dilithium that again goes to a design choice. Perish the thought, but another legitimate option would be to lower the dilithium costs of those projects and balance that with a greater need for fleet marks which were attainable through the IOR mission. But again, this totally ignores the fact the current five fleet missions are unsatisfactory as a source due to a number of reasons: painfully low reward numbers, poor queue numbers on the KDF side, and also because the mindless repetition becomes boring rather quickly. The decision to force players into more grinding versus creating more viable and varied content for them is a poor one.

As a whole, not taking an intermediate step is off-putting. Other adjustments could have been made and explored, but that wasn't done. As a result, I for one will stop referring friends and members of my multi-gaming guild community to STO, I will stop spending real money on zen and drastically reduce my playing time in STO and focus on other games. Why do I mention this? Because the Cryptic marketing department needs to be aware that the actions of the devs does have an effect on their bottom line. Word of mouth of this will also affect the Neverwinter beta numbers as well, if what I have read in these threads is any indication. Look at how Snowflake-Gate in GW2 affected ANet and you can see how these type of decisions have consequences.
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