Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 524
# 581
02-15-2013, 10:47 AM
Add more fun, not more grind.

Fleets are more than just numbers. Fleets are social groups, however small or large, usually clustered around a common interest or goal. We may not want to be a large, faceless corporation with as many faceless minions as we can spam recruit. We want to be a loyal team of close friends without losing a decent avenue of access to group benefits. We know it will take more effort or time for smaller fleets, but that does not mean it should be difficult or take long enough to leave the fleet discouraged or broken.

The problem now is the game design forces a player to focus their time and energy on either individual progression (reputation) or group progression (fleet stuff). As a small fleet leader, I see most of my members focusing on individual progression so they can remain competitive before they move on to group progression.

If a fleet member wants the MACO ground and space sets, I can expect they won't contribute much to the fleet for at least a week if they're maxing out their daily dilithium refinement. If that player suddenly decides they want to see how the other reputation sets compare, that length of time without their contributions to the fleet increases dramatically. That only takes into consideration the dilithium contributions they might provide. There is also the loss of fleet mark contributions since they have to spend their time grinding reputation marks to help get the reputation gear instead of working on fleet activities.

We might even work on things together as a fleet, but unless we do the few Cryptic-designated missions that award fleet marks, we get no benefit for the fleet. It should not be this way. We have an automatic Veteran XP buff that benefits teams and helps with leveling. Add an automatic fleet buff that grants 1FM per an amount of XP gained while working on something while teamed with fleet members. Additional fleet marks entering the game are not going to break the game. Rather, I expect it would greatly benefit fleets of all sizes and actually help promote fleet ship module sales.

I posted this in yesterday's thread that was closed, but it still applies. I think Fleet progress should be similar to reputation progress.
  1. No project takes longer than twenty hours, and upgrades take even less time.
  2. There should be at least two XP-only projects for each fleet holding subsection, and neither of them should require dilithium.
  3. Upgrade projects should also not require dilithium.
  4. The only projects that should require dilithium should be the projects that lead to unlocks and provisions, just like it is with the reputation system.
  5. There needs to be ways to earn greater amounts of Fleet Marks in shorter times. The answer to this is not to use "boosts", but other methods to earn the Fleet Marks, such as an automatic additional reward for doing activities while teamed within your fleet.

Small fleets need goals that are readily obtainable even if they're composed of mostly casual players. Individually, the reputation system does this, but for a fleet, the fleet holdings do not. Time-gate progression if you must, but do not make it harder to obtain the necessary inputs. If anything, make it easier and give fleet leaders controls to limit contributions if they run into problems providing everyone with the opportunity to contribute. Changes like removing an easier source of Fleet Marks put small fleets one step closer to growing discouraged and breaking up. Folks want their T4/T5 fleet gear, and are willing to pay for it if we'd just have an easier road access. What we don't have is more time for more grind.
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,289
# 582
02-15-2013, 10:49 AM
Originally Posted by solomace View Post
You must be joking right?

Have you seen the last thread before this? Have you even read the posts in this thread.

It's a small amount of people that are in agreement and they're mostly in large fleets so are not bothered, but this is getting towards the removal of Dil from STF amount of rage that Cryptic ended up backtracking and changed. Other sources too are capturing this negativity (except Massively ofc) so not sure where your coming from.

How do you know it's a silent majority that's happy with the changes?

I'm all for discussion and standing up for your side, but when you brush away pages and pages of people posting and then seem to have your own metrics saying people are happy with the changes, then I have to say wow...
No its a small amount of posters from mostly large fleets who all agree with their posters. Most people aren't going to post unless they complain.

Guess what , there are lots of large fleets and most feel the same way. Large fleets=large amounts of players that don't mind these changes.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 243
# 583
02-15-2013, 10:51 AM
If you think they want a lock on controlling resources down to its finite amount, whats Neverwinter going to be like..XD

Have to use your Crowbar of Power to fart out an Astral Diamond.
“The truth of the matter is that you always know the right thing to do. The hard part is doing it.” - Norman Schwarzkopf
Career Officer
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 627
# 584
02-15-2013, 10:56 AM
Originally Posted by marc8219 View Post
No its a small amount of posters from mostly large fleets who all agree with their posters. Most people aren't going to post unless they complain.

Guess what , there are lots of large fleets and most feel the same way. Large fleets=large amounts of players that don't mind these changes.

It's not about large fleet vs small fleet. Before, we had an option as to how we wanted to get FM. I did both Foundry and Fleet missions. I could choose.

I have no choice, I must grind the same boring missions, and so do my fleet mates. Not to mention the Foundry is uselss now; no XP awarding IOR, won't bother to play it. Scalling awards that award less dilithium than before, won't bother with the Foundry.

This one action killed small fleets, seriously put a damper in advancing a toon strictly by Foundry wrappers, killed any need to use the Foundry, and now killed choice.
How the Devs see Star Trek, apparently:
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 622
# 585
02-15-2013, 10:56 AM
Originally Posted by marc8219 View Post
No its a small amount of posters from mostly large fleets who all agree with their posters. Most people aren't going to post unless they complain.

Guess what , there are lots of large fleets and most feel the same way. Large fleets=large amounts of players that don't mind these changes.
All cloaks should be canon.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 544
# 586
02-15-2013, 10:57 AM
If the majority of fleets in STO are less than 25 "active" players, than shouldn't that be the model Cryptic uses to base fleet mark resources. Looking at the change, I would say it is just the opposite.

I am not ripping on the removal of fleet marks from the foundry so much as I am limiting the ability for those 25 active player fleets from actually progressing at a reasonable rate.\

Most MMOs that I have played that had a leveling guild/fleet system, did not do it via grind, but by a shared EXP system. I am not requesting that here, but those systems allowed for a natural progression of the guild/fleet without requiring members to drop what they are doing and spend their entire game day grinding fleet marks.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 112
# 587
02-15-2013, 10:59 AM
Mr. Stahl,

I truly hope this finds its way to you. I am taking my time writing it, doing my best not to make it ragey, and to keep it respectable.

To get this out of the way, regarding the fleet mark change, I am angry. I am angry at the Foundry Few (they know who they are) whose egos and entitlement created this whole mess, and I am angry at you for approving the changes that have gutted the acquisition of fleet marks and effectively crippled any chance my fleet has of leveling up our fleet holdings. With that said...

I do understand you wanting to increase the availability to earn dilithium in game. This is not a bad thing, the more dilithium the better. I happen to be one of those players who are sitting on a pile of ore because I hit the refining limit, but I know that there are a lot of players who do not have this issue and support making adjustments to help fill their pockets.

What I, and it seems 99 percent of everyone else, feel was a huge mistake was removing the ability to earn a respectable amount of fleet marks from the game. If you wanted to separate fleet marks from the foundry, ok, but why did you not add them to some other mission?

Fleet Mark/Event Missions

Currently the fleet mark missions such as Federation Fleet Alert, Starbase Fleet Defense, Incursion, Blockade, etc. have gotten stale. There are only so many times a person can do the same thing over and over before they go insane. It?s also not helped that these missions do not pay very well in fleet marks; this is especially true for Starbase Fleet Defense. I would like to suggest the following for your consideration:

1. Double the fleet mark payout. Yes, seriously. People are burnt out on grinding these missions for little to show for it. Make it worth our while again and I would imagine you will see more people playing them.

2. During the Fleet Mark event, increase the fleet mark payout to 2.5 times as much, or more if you were so inclined.

Fleet Action Missions
We currently have a Fleet Action Daily mission that provides 50 Fleet Marks for completing either Halting the Gorn Advance, Klingon Scout Force, or The Big Dig. The mission rotates every few days between those three missions. Again, for your consideration:

1. Change the Fleet Action Daily mission to a Fleet Action Repeatable with a 30 minute cooldown from time of pickup. Reduce or remove the dilithium payout if you feel that is necessary, and have it award 50 Fleet Marks when completed.

2. Add Starbase 24 and Breaking the Planet as eligible missions for the above suggested Fleet Action Repeatable. They are Fleet Actions, why they are not in the rotation for the current daily is a mystery to me.

I really cannot stress to you enough how negatively the current loss of fleet marks will impact my fleet, and I would dare assume a great many other fleets as well. The slow progress we have been making will come to a complete halt unless something is done. I ask you; please increase the ability to earn fleet marks. Please do this now. Not in three months, not in three weeks, but now. Take the servers down for "unscheduled maintenance", make the changes, and people will thank you for correcting a huge error.

Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 89
# 588
02-15-2013, 10:59 AM
Originally Posted by marc8219 View Post
Then why is my fleet chat and teamspeak silent on this issue. Sorry but that counts for as much as 10, 20 maybe even 30 times as much people as your Fleet likely has. It is the same way on both my KDF and Fed fleets as I am a member of 2 different Fleets around same size, none of them care. Sorry but your small fleet= small amount of players=insignificant minority.
Sorry but you are in the minority when it comes to fleets. The average fleet size of 25 would not be that low if most people were in massive fleets. You're almost as out of touch as the businessmen behind the decisions.
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 337
# 589
02-15-2013, 11:01 AM
Originally Posted by marc8219 View Post
No its a small amount of posters from mostly large fleets who all agree with their posters. Most people aren't going to post unless they complain.

Guess what , there are lots of large fleets and most feel the same way. Large fleets=large amounts of players that don't mind these changes.
I like you

Added you to my ever decreasing list...
Straight from the mouth of one of the leaders of the CDF - "I tell you what, Haven't spent any money either - I'm a lousy freeloader" - Jonsills 17/12/2014
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,063
# 590
02-15-2013, 11:01 AM
Originally Posted by claransa View Post
I'm just going to add a plug for that poor neglected officer of the watch, on every starbase out there. This guy needs to give more than 5 fleet marks every 20 hours.

Does your data show that this guy is ever used?
Agreed. yes, the missions are VERY simple/quick; but 5 FM is a woefully small reward when - for just 10,000 CXP (once you have one or more Commendation commendation categories at T4) - one gets 75-100 FM; and Doffing honestly ISN'T all that time intensive for the most part.

I'd say 20 to 50 FM for the Fleet dallies would be more in line then the pitiful 5. Again, it's a once evry 20 hour mission; so it's not like they can be massively 'farmed (even as more Holdings get added to the game.) Players have to travel to the holding (and some will take more time to get to than others as Holdings are added); and then do the mission. 5 FM currently really does seem inadequate.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012  1340755546
PWE Drone says: "Your STO community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:07 AM.