Lt. Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 186
# 641
02-15-2013, 11:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsurutafan01 View Post
Just as an aside does this forum have an ignore feature, or is it running on a design from 1996?
No they don't and they got rid of the report feature as well, for some reason.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,424
# 642
02-15-2013, 11:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by coupaholic View Post
The debate about marks will continue, but I'm more concerned about how Cryptic handled this.

All I can see is that Cryptic decided to take marks away from Foundry, decided to let everyone know in the patch notes a day before the patch was to go live, and failed to include a suitable alternative for earning marks.

To me this is lazy. I actually agree that fleet marks should be out of Foundry and that the system was abused much like clickies for Dil. I do not agree that they rushed in and took it away with barely any notice, and not without another means to earn marks in place.
EXACTLY.

The problem is that Cryptic comes up with a better or more coherent on-paper design and then they just deploy it to servers.

Some things need to be deployed in phases. Some things, better design or not, don't need to be deployed at all because it's too far a leap from where players already are.

I mean, holy mackerel, they could have just said, "We need a new fleet mark sink to siphon off excess supply." That's just one possible example and not the only one. But they could have said, "We'll add an embassy project that siphons off fleet marks, a fleet reputation system that uses fleet marks, some items/projects that cost direct fleet marks, etc." And it would have had a similar net effect without taking anything away.
Ensign
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 11
# 643
02-15-2013, 11:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by marc8219 View Post
Cryptic please don't listen to all these complainers. Of course all the people that are against it are going to be complaining the loudest and most on forums, but fact is most players aren't complaining here and don't really have a problem with these changes.

Both my Fed and KDF fleets are close to 500 members and most are not active on the forums, and from what I have seen of other Fleets this size it is similar with them.
From what I hear from everyone on Fleet chat and teamspeak none of them are complaining or care I assume this is similar with many other fleets. The mostly silient majority does not mind these changes and are ok with it, don't let the loud angry minority bully you into giving them their exploits back. These changes were the right thing to do for the foundry and for the Fleet Event system (maybe we will actually get the queues active again outside of events)
You don't represent the "silent majority"... If the average fleet size is 25 then for every fleet of 500 there are dozens of fleets with less than 25 members... so before you pretend to speak for the masses... do some math.

This decision is just wrong all the way around... and before you get all excited to get more people in queue, you should realize a lot more people will be in queue to AFK as well and ruin your fun as they used to do before fleet marks were added to solo foundry missions.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,289
# 644
02-15-2013, 11:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeus16nbs View Post
Amazing post and totally pure logic!

PWE/Cryptic are you reading this?

Here's the answer right in front of your eyes!

Just cap the large fleet size to a much lower level like 25 max!

Actually smaller fleets should be rewarded more than large fleets for the amount of time and money they are putting into their bases.

Large fleets are the exploit! Please change your design pattern and reward the hard work small fleets are doing. You will reap the benefits from them alot more than the large fleets that now have T5 and have stopped grinding on your "farm".

If you turn away from your "farming" style of game design and actually start developing new missions, story lines, and playable factions, you will get more in profits from all the ships, equipment, costumes, kits, etc. than you will ever get from the "farming" system.

Please listen to your customers!

PWE/Cryptic Stop the "farm", bring back the fun!

Zeus
Wow what a completely asinine and insane post. No MMO in their right mind would ever restrict guilds to be that small, it is always in the hundreds. You choose to be in a small fleet and accept the challenges that come with it so you can avoid some of the challenges of being in a large fleet like politics, deciding fair way to share provisions, managing large events, and generally keeping so many members happy. You made that choice now deal with it.


Your small fleet isn't unlocking shipyard tiers fast enough, and even if it did doesn't have a lot of people that will be buying modules compared to large fleets with t4 shipyards. WHich is why large fleets are better for cryptic anyway.
Ensign
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 11
# 645
02-15-2013, 12:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by marc8219 View Post
Then why is my fleet chat and teamspeak silent on this issue. Sorry but that counts for as much as 10, 20 maybe even 30 times as much people as your Fleet likely has. It is the same way on both my KDF and Fed fleets as I am a member of 2 different Fleets around same size, none of them care. Sorry but your small fleet= small amount of players=insignificant minority.
Once again you're mistaken... do the math. Just because your large fleet is talking about it doesn't mean it's not impacting large numbers of players across the board. There are hundreds more small fleets than large fleets.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,173
# 646
02-15-2013, 12:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stoleviathan99 View Post
EXACTLY.

The problem is that Cryptic comes up with a better or more coherent on-paper design and then they just deploy it to servers.

Some things need to be deployed in phases. Some things, better design or not, don't need to be deployed at all because it's too far a leap from where players already are.

I mean, holy mackerel, they could have just said, "We need a new fleet mark sink to siphon off excess supply." That's just one possible example and not the only one. But they could have said, "We'll add an embassy project that siphons off fleet marks, a fleet reputation system that uses fleet marks, some items/projects that cost direct fleet marks, etc." And it would have had a similar net effect without taking anything away.
Well put, and I agree. You should also pipe in about my "Playing as Intended" post because I know we have similar philosophies on it.

-ABM

Last edited by badname834854; 02-15-2013 at 12:04 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 129
# 647
02-15-2013, 12:01 PM
Wow, lots of pages of responses here! Obviously, many people were caught unaware by this most recent change, but I'm not sure why they would have been.

I stumbled onto this whole "short Foundry missions give 50 FM" shortcut just htis week. In 2 days, I used 2 of my characters to earn 1100 FM for my single player Fleet. It got me up to Tier 1. I ran the same Foundry mission over and over again to get it (was able to complete the text-heavy mission in 5-8 minutes, depending on loading times).

Obviously, this wasn't how the game was intended to be played, and, as a Foundry author myself, wasn't what I wanted to see the Foundry become.

Although I'll definitely misss the easy FM, I have no problem with them being taken out in this case. What I'd LIKE to see, though, is the following:

1. FM added to all Fleet Action missions (Starbase 24, Halting the Gorn Advance, etc.); and not just as the Daily event, but for all the events, every day. A 20 hour cool-down period makes sense, but there are only 5 of these events, I think, so someone doing each one of these every day SHOULD earn some decent FMs.

2. FM added to STFs. They're fleet events, so they should get fleet rewards.

I agree with dstahl that the biggest hurdle for fleets isn't the FMs but the Dilithium costs. One of my alts is in a large fleet (100+ members) and the last resource to be filled for each and every mSB mission and upgrade is dilithium. Sure, we could buy Dil, but a lot of us object to the whole "pay to advance" idea. Ideally, Dil will be earned through a variety of different ways (not just grinding a handful of Eta Eridian and Deferi missions-that gets old!).

I saw one poster recommend that all Cryptic-designed missions (i.e. leveling up missions) give Dil, either every time or just on replay. Some of these missions are really good, and Cryptic might as well get as much mileage out of them as they can. This sounds like a good idea to me.

Anyway, I really enjoy STO and want to see it continue to grow and add new things for all players to do. I LOVE my Tier 1 StarBase, and I'm now working on my Romulan Embassy and reputations for each alt, so I've got my hands full for awhile.

Hopefully, this latest dust-up can be settled to most people's satisfaction and we can all get on with playing the game we enjoy so much.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,289
# 648
02-15-2013, 12:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyuui13 View Post
No they don't and they got rid of the report feature as well, for some reason.
I assume you want to report and ignore me, well even if you were able to nothing would happen, as I am sure the devs aren't really pleased with all you obnoxious complainers now and don't mind reasonable people like me who are ok with their changes and appreciate their hard work.
Career Officer
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 623
# 649
02-15-2013, 12:02 PM
Could we at least put an IOR in that awards only XP, for those of us that wanted an alternate way to level alts?
Most JJ Trek hate = IDIC fail.
Quote:
Most who don't like the new Star Trek either didn't like TOS, don't remember TOS, or didn't see TOS
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,020
# 650
02-15-2013, 12:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aelfwin1 View Post
Could it be that they got what they wanted and are off celebrating victory ?
I mean a number of their posts indicate that they don't give a rodent's behind as to what happens outside the Foundry .
The Foundry authors aren't blame in this whole mess - that lies squarely with Cryptic.

Fleet Marks should never have been attached to Foundry Missions in the first place, they should have been attached to compelling, non-time-gated Fleet content in quantities that rewarded players rather than punished them.

I can't disagree that there's some elitist attitudes amongst some authors (and non-authors) as to what constitutes a 'good' Foundry mission, but the fact is, Cryptic gave the players tools to exploit the system and they furthermore rewarded those players for doing it.

Those rewards are part of the life-blood of small fleets and pulling them without offering any alternatives is as clumsy and blinkered as the 'fixes' they inflicted on the STF community.
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