Career Officer
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 244
# 881
02-15-2013, 05:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by captainrevo1 View Post
pretty sure you no longer need the wrapper. you play a mission, as long as it does not have the red text, you get rewards.
I'm pretty sure you don't get any rewards at all except loot drops unless you have the IOR repeatable, regardless of whether or not it qualifies.

Edit: Also, there's another reason to do the IOR; the XP. The story missions usually require you to get to the next level before you can do the next mission, then it doesn't give you enough XP to level, meaning you either have to do IOR or fleet events, so back to my original point; forcing non-fleet players to grind fleet events, even worse, forcing them to grind fleet events so that they can play the main campaign... Cryptic... Are you feeling well? O.o

Last edited by mushariagain; 02-15-2013 at 05:23 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,975
# 882
02-15-2013, 05:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stoleviathan99 View Post
It means you have somebody or a team of somebodies who does feng shui on the customer experience by being solely dedicated to it. You're describing service providers with an inflexible level of demand, relatively little competition, and high barriers for entry when you talk banks and airlines... although that hasn't stopped many of them from looking at least somewhat beyond the production (ie. "if we build a product or service, they will come") mentality.

Here's a nice summary of the eras, though it uses different terms than I'm used to:


By and large, Cryptic's approach skews towards emphasizing production and tacking on advertising after the fact. They DO use datamining but they use it to coral people back towards expectation rather than in an anticipatory, relationship-building way.

Think for a second about something like Amazon or even airlines. They tailor offers and pricing to the user and generally try to shift the offer to the user. They pursue a sale they think is likely when they put any effort into it. Disney is, overall, a good example of a marketing company. For people who live leisurely lives, Disney targets them frequently while with people on fixed incomes, they may try to get with a more affordable vacation package.

They aren't trying to get the consumer to buy the product their way. They find aspects of the product that appeal to a target market and try to align the consumer with the right offer.

Things like the customer script at Starbucks or those "company values" manuals at service chains are also great. People like it when you ask their name, when you write their name. A good customer experience is like a spell. Subtle. Customers shouldn't necessarily consciously realize they're being influenced by it and may deny being influenced by it. I think it's easy to dismiss this stuff as a cynical Gen X/Millennial but I think it's a profound artform that works and doesn't really require customers believing that it works. There is a wealth of behavioral experiment literature on what works.

And I'll give you an example, a very small one, where Cryptic got one little aspect of this right. The fleet contribution sound effect. There were podcasters and players raving about this, some describing their reaction to those rapid pupil dilation cuts from "Requiem for a Dream." I have a feeling it was almost an afterthought from Cryptic but it greased the gears for a gameplay activity tremendously. That's a really micro example and fairly mechanical but you do it longterm and strategically.

PvP, The Foundry, Klingon play, DOffs, Fleet Actions, STFs... These are all in effect offers or value propositions which, once bought into, are used as a center for soft sells on the C-Store.

Let me toss an article out there:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marketing_management

How much do you think Cryptic does this when designing game systems?

For example, take the Foundry or PvP:



My feeling is that they probably only employed datamining in any kind of systematic way. Anything else boiled down to polling friends and fleetmates.



How much do you see Cryptic doing this? I think Cryptic's iterative approach winds up being a lot more employee driven and hobby-like, to a point where they neither meet needs nor do they do so profitably. (In fact, I think the profit generated is often markedly divorced from the needs being met. To a point where their approach might often be effectively using profit -- whether measured as money or activity -- to underwrite unprofitable game design elements -- whether measured in popularity or revenue generated.)

In general, how much do they manage their brand and the brands they license? How often does anyone say, "What does this do to customer satisfaction?" I'd bet the IDEA comes up but that they don't have anyone primarily concerned with that... and because they don't, it's what gets compromised when the chiefs meet and Al is pushing systems and Jesse/Kestrel are pushing story and the art leads are looking at their workloads. It's a missing voice in the room in terms of having a dedicated voice and because it's a missing voice, it gets compromised.

You need people educated in customer satisfaction strategies to make that a co-equal focus with systems, art, content, etc. If nothing else, to wear a different hat and say, "How will this impact the player?" But ideally armed with behavioral psychology, pertinent questions, and studies and analysis based on more than just staring at numbers looking for patterns.

Above all, asking, "How do we make the game that people want to play?" and not, "How do we make people play the game the way we want them to?"

The minute you start deciding how you want players to play the game, you've lost.

Does that mean letting them exploit clickies? Heck, no. But a clickie exploiter has a desire. You find the desire and exploit it with a strategy. Maybe they like repetitive action. Maybe the activities they enjoy playing are not linked to or consistent with the rewards they want.

Somebody playing a clickie wants something. Dilithium. A weapon. A ship. A costume. And they want to use that in the game somewhere. Maybe they want to spend more time PvPing or more time posing in their new costume on the fleet starbase. Maybe they want to play a big Foundry mission but want to get the reward they think the mission deserves first so they can play that mission with the new guns they want. Maybe they only want to play at length once a month. And the clickie lets them do what they want to do when they get around to playing and lets them avoid doing what they don't want to do.

Every exploiter wants something. You find out what it is they want and offer it attractively in a legitimate way. Shutting them down is just herding them like cattle towards things they don't want to do. You miss out on figuring out what they DO want to do when you just close an exploit.

Designers should not be determining how people play but should be figuring out how to serve the ways people DO want to play.
/golfclap

I am one of those so called 'exploiters' who used the clickies and then the farm missions. With a minor amount of introspection I know what 'need' I have that cryptic is not meeting in game.

Part A) I love new ships. I get the most excitement in this game after getting a new ship and finish setting it up and taking it out for it's first STF.

Part B) I hate social obligations or connections created for me in an online video game.

So to get new ships I need to be in a fleet. I hate fleets so I make my own and the only way to advance said fleet in what I find to be a bearable but still unreasonable amount of time I do what I do.

If their was another game with a similar ship setup style that was casual in nature and focused on PvE I'd be gone tomorrow.

And if only Cryptic could afford to hire you stoleviathan99. You see the person you just described in your post is what I believe is the OP's job description. Shame he isn't very good at it.

Can we take this a step further if no one minds? What type of player was attracted to the game with it going F2P? I would assume the casual player with limited time that just enjoys a little pew pew or some solid story content without a mountain of grind. That is what the game was during the first F2P season. Yet they are doing their best to change that and I cannot understand why.

These decisions they make are so self destructive. This game is a success in spite of the decisions made not because of it. Their is literally no competition in the Sci Fi casual PvE focused MMO market that I know of so why on earth would they move away from that demographic?
Get yer Fleet Gear here!
Military 5 / Engineering 4 / Science 4
Starbase 5 / Embassy 3 / Mine 3 / Spire 3
Diplomacy 3 / Recruit 3 / Trade 3 / Development 3 / Research 3 / Operations 3
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...1#post16435781

Last edited by bareel; 02-15-2013 at 05:24 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 953
# 883
02-15-2013, 05:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bareel View Post
/golfclap

I am one of those so called 'exploiters' who used the clickies and then the farm missions. With a minor amount of introspection I know what 'need' I have that cryptic is not meeting in game.



And if only Cryptic could afford to hire you stoleviathan99. You see the person you just described in your post is what I believe is the OP's job description. Shame he isn't very good at it.
You're not exploiting you're managing in-game tasks within your time-limited framework to gain the maximum amount of enjoyment per hour spent on a game that's only really fun content is team based PVE and new ships.

As for the 2nd part... the robot that used to plug into my Nintendo used to give me better forewarning of when a game was going to screw me

Last edited by thisisoverlord; 02-15-2013 at 05:26 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 220
# 884
02-15-2013, 05:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wirtdd View Post
Now the next move is an update patch increaisng the FM rewards from fleet events, with a "we hear our players" note form devs, followed by 74648746 posts form ppl saying thank you.

I'm started to think that Cryptic do this stuff on purpose.
They do. Take away 100% of something, then give 50% back and still get the 50% reduction they were looking for.

Its the weekend, their going to let us stew for two days and hope it blows over by Monday. I can almost guarantee that's their gameplan after an entire day of nothing but Stahls post full of ifs and maybes.

Look at the Ask Cryptic Feb. Is it me or does he not definitively answer any question asked of him...

And he can't talk about the May update, but he does, then he can't again...

I need an aspirin to follow his convoluted mass of non-answers...
Click here to see the true story of the KDF and Cryptic!

"...just look at my track record for making the improvements that I said we would with the KDF and judge by that." - Dan Stahl
Career Officer
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 953
# 885
02-15-2013, 05:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebumble View Post
They do. Take away 100% of something, then give 50% back and still get the 50% reduction they were looking for.
Standard business practice, I buy something wholesale for 30% less than I sell it to you but I tell you that your getting 20% off the high-street price
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,028
# 886
02-15-2013, 05:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gr4v1t4r View Post
Does that sound like a smart business decision to you?
What, having some degree of openness and transparency towards the community? Sounds terrible. At least make some sort of effort to let everyone know the bad news equally, rather than leaving it to word of mouth.
----
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 218
# 887
02-15-2013, 05:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebumble View Post
They do. Take away 100% of something, then give 50% back and still get the 50% reduction they were looking for.

Its the weekend, their going to let us stew for two days and hope it blows over by Monday. I can almost guarantee that's their gameplan after an entire day of nothing but Stahls post full of ifs and maybes.

Look at the Ask Cryptic Feb. Is it me or does he not definitively answer any question asked of him...

And he can't talk about the May update, but he does, then he can't again...

I need an aspirin to follow his convoluted mass of non-answers...

This is exactly what I'm expecting. Lose 100 FM per hour, get back 30ish. They're also gonna put that 30 marks somewhere I don't wanna play.
Ensign
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2
# 888
02-15-2013, 05:28 PM
Hmmmm, I wonder if the Fleet Marks nerf was implemented after the 'special' fleets hit rank 5?
Career Officer
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 582
# 889
02-15-2013, 05:29 PM
As of writing this (assume this thread will hit 90 pages) combining this thread with the one closed by Branflakes, we are at 165 pages, totaling about 1650 posts, about 95%-99% voicing disent at this decision, and still no response (other than the OP, Branflakes closing the other thread, and community mods redacting far more disenters than CDF folks).

Talk about a big middle finger to the playerbase.

Let's not even talk about the double talk from Cryptic (we want players to get more dilithium, but we won't raise the cap).
Most JJ Trek hate = IDIC fail.
Quote:
Most who don't like the new Star Trek either didn't like TOS, don't remember TOS, or didn't see TOS
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 783
# 890
02-15-2013, 05:31 PM
Try this...

Every single person reading this thread who hates what has happened... or more accurately hates that Cryptic has refused to acknowledge the dis-satisfaction you have with the change, send them a message that their internal metrics cannot ignore.

Urge your friends and fleetmates to take a minimum of one full week off of playing STO. And if you discover that going without STO for a week wasn't so bad. Try to make it TWO weeks. In addition to not playing, don't post. Monitor the forums but do not post.

Let inactivity be met with inactivity, and silence met with silence.

And if you are worried about losing out on fleet advancement? How much can you really advance with the pittance of FMs the boring repetitive grind missions grant?

Go dark.

Will any of you be willing to do this? Or will it just be us hurling vitriol at Cryptic and at each other? It's up to you guys.

Whether or not Dan spoke the truth in this thread's first post is irrelevant. What IS relevant is the fact that Cryptic and Dan ARE trying to force their vision of howe we should play down our throats in spite of the fact that MANY of us do not think it is fun. And whatever the motivation and reason for yesterday's changes, it reinforces that position.

They won't listen to words. Let them see a huge decline in active players over the course of the next week. IF you guys are really as upset as you seem to be, doing this shouldn't be that hard. And if you're just taging on here for the sake of raging then well... What can I say?

The freedom to log in or not is ours to ecercise. Let silence speak volumes...
I am of the opinion that Cryptic cannot because PWE will not...
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