Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,966
# 951
02-15-2013, 09:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stoleviathan99 View Post
I'm sure they could afford to and I'd move for it but I can't say for sure they would after some of the back and forth here.

However, if they wanted to look at a marketing team, here's how I'd handle it, starting out...

Introduce a new position:

Junior Marketing Designer

This position spends 50% of its time as a QA tester, 25% in design meetings, and 25% coordinating with Brandon/PWE's outside Marketing and Cryptic's Chief Marketing Officer.

The Junior Marketing Designer compiles issues with community response and exploits/bugs and acts to anticipate them while analyzing the player needs that drive them.

JMDs answer to the QA lead then Dan Stahl and then the CMO in that order.

JMDs compile regular reports directly to the CMO, utilizing the information they gather, that Brandon gathers, and that they discover in the QA process. They have an observational role at high end design meetings (effectively, no vote) but Stahl may recognize them for feedback. They're expected to bring ideas from behavioral psychology and marketing into the mix.

Pluses would include degrees in psychology, marketing, organizational behavior, or communications. Strong oral and written competency required and a knowledge of the game they're assigned to is a plus, with activity in the community given strong consideration.

Try it out for 12 months. If it flops, cut the program and shift these folks to fulltime QA positions. If it succeeds, create Marketing Leads for each game and give the Marketing Lead a co-equal role in the design process with veto power, answering directly to the Executive Producer and CMO in such a way that the EP and CMO would need to agree to override a Marketing Lead's idea veto or to fire or reassign the Marketing Lead.
That would mean letting the customer desires influence the decisions of the all mighty dev team. Blaspheme!

On that note I always found it interesting that Riot Games had such a large number of employees with psychology degrees. Wonder if that fact and their number one status are related in anyway.

Nah.

Although the answer to the question of the next exploit. I just hope they don't make a Military Offensive and try to Reclaim the Artifact rewards to a lower level preventing my alts from generating a large quantity of Fleet Marks for little time investment. Although that does take a bit more to get going than the previous foundry wrapper.

I also hope that with the precedent of Fleets selling store access for energy credits that doesn't expand to any form of RMT. Although it most likely will sadly.
Get yer Fleet Gear here!
Military 5 / Engineering 4 / Science 4
Starbase 5 / Embassy 3 / Mine 3 / Spire 3
Diplomacy 3 / Recruit 3 / Trade 3 / Development 3 / Research 3 / Operations 3
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...1#post16435781

Last edited by bareel; 02-15-2013 at 09:57 PM.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 72
# 952
02-15-2013, 10:02 PM
Completely broken - noone in fleet is interested of running 20x day the boring low payout fleet missions - 15-20 fm for over 30 minutes of pve, no dilithium, no gearm no reputation marks.

As if the godly dilithium requirement havent forced the fleet to a crawl, now all FM contributions have stopped also. Even dilithium payins, since half the people cant even hit the cap anymroe with their limited playtime. The daililes and such are extremely timeconsuming, flyign acrossthe galaxyy, sitting in loading screens and dialogs and flying after groups of enemies that are 50 lightyears apart.

ATLEAST make the fleet PVE worth the time, 50 fleet marks with some extra dilithium.


All this talk about " you can get sooo much dilithium" yet you forget the 8k/day refine limit.

Iv spent today 8 hours to reach 8k dil limit, get enough omega marks to continue projects, farm FM for fleet - yet i have had no time to farm EC or romulan marks or gear. Even the last 10 borg STF elites gave max 1 processor.

This is too much grind and when weekend is over, i have to start choosing - ether dilithium, reputation, marks or gear/money.

Or ill just find another game and avoid all this stress.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 702
# 953
02-15-2013, 10:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dastahl View Post
Option A was that Fleet size would determine the maximum tier for Fleet Holdings. The larger the Fleet, the higher the Fleet Holding Tiers could achieve. This is how many other MMOs gate Guild progression, but we felt that it is artificially limiting to the many active small Fleets in STO.

Option B was to allow Fleets of any size to achieve all tiers of Fleet Holdings. The drawback is that because Fleet sizes range so much, we had to find a balance so that Large Fleets had some challenge, while still allowing small Fleets to achieve all tiers, albeit at a much slower pace. If you are in a Fleet less than 25 players, then it is expected to be more challenging than the norm.
Option C: Scale fleet project costs with fleet sizes. Large fleets have proportionally large requirements, small fleets have proportionally small requirements. Do not touch project rewards... so projects will still reward the same XP no matter what fleet sieze fleet you are in. Do not mess with project time limits. Projects will still take 20 hours-7 days to complete. Minimum fleet size set at 5 accounts. Can not scale below that. Based on accounts within the fleet, not characters.

I came up with that in 2 minutes... so you guys didnt think that hard now did you?
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,966
# 954
02-15-2013, 10:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by qinnux View Post
Completely broken - noone in fleet is interested of running 20x day the boring low payout fleet missions - 15-20 fm for over 30 minutes of pve, no dilithium, no gearm no reputation marks.

As if the godly dilithium requirement havent forced the fleet to a crawl, now all FM contributions have stopped also. Even dilithium payins, since half the people cant even hit the cap anymroe with their limited playtime. The daililes and such are extremely timeconsuming, flyign acrossthe galaxyy, sitting in loading screens and dialogs and flying after groups of enemies that are 50 lightyears apart.

ATLEAST make the fleet PVE worth the time, 50 fleet marks with some extra dilithium.


All this talk about " you can get sooo much dilithium" yet you forget the 8k/day refine limit.

Iv spent today 8 hours to reach 8k dil limit, get enough omega marks to continue projects, farm FM for fleet - yet i have had no time to farm EC or romulan marks or gear. Even the last 10 borg STF elites gave max 1 processor.

This is too much grind and when weekend is over, i have to start choosing - ether dilithium, reputation, marks or gear/money.

Or ill just find another game and avoid all this stress.
And see this is part of the problem. I can grind out 6k-8k dil in an hour easily because I know what/how to do it. And it has nothing to do with me being a good player just that I know where to go and use the right ships to bash threw the content.

Klingon 1v1 Foundry: 2 runs, 10 minutes, 1k+
Gorn Minefield if Daily is up: 10-15 min, 1.5k & 50 marks
Contraband Turn + Misc Doffing: 5 min, 0-3k
ISE or CSE: 15 min, 2k
Breen Dailies twice: 15 min per run, 5k total

Those are just a few and it depends on what is available. You will only rarely see me run stuff with terribad rewards mainly Azure Nebula because I love it and Nukara cause I enjoy killing spiders. I also only use Tac heavy DHC wielding warships.
Get yer Fleet Gear here!
Military 5 / Engineering 4 / Science 4
Starbase 5 / Embassy 3 / Mine 3 / Spire 3
Diplomacy 3 / Recruit 3 / Trade 3 / Development 3 / Research 3 / Operations 3
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...1#post16435781

Last edited by bareel; 02-15-2013 at 10:19 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,706
# 955
02-15-2013, 10:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by amayakitsune View Post
Option C: Scale fleet project costs with fleet sizes. Large fleets have proportionally large requirements, small fleets have proportionally small requirements. Do not touch project rewards... so projects will still reward the same XP no matter what fleet sieze fleet you are in. Do not mess with project time limits. Projects will still take 20 hours-7 days to complete. Minimum fleet size set at 5 accounts. Can not scale below that. Based on accounts within the fleet, not characters.

I came up with that in 2 minutes... so you guys didnt think that hard now did you?
And it's an option that been discussed before ad naseum, and is so ridiculously easy to exploit:

1) Create Fleet

2) Find minimum amount of members needed to get the lowest cost on Fleet Projects.

3) Round Robin players in and out of the Fleet (keeping it at the required Fleet member number) and get Fleet to T5/Embassy to T3.

4) Once complete invite everyone back

For a system to work, it can't be so easily exploitable.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=91861979000&dateline=  1340755546
PWE Drone says, "Your STO community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 184
# 956
02-15-2013, 10:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by amayakitsune View Post
Option C: Scale fleet project costs with fleet sizes. Large fleets have proportionally large requirements, small fleets have proportionally small requirements. Do not touch project rewards... so projects will still reward the same XP no matter what fleet sieze fleet you are in. Do not mess with project time limits. Projects will still take 20 hours-7 days to complete. Minimum fleet size set at 5 accounts. Can not scale below that. Based on accounts within the fleet, not characters.

I came up with that in 2 minutes... so you guys didnt think that hard now did you?
That only encourages to create a million of mini fleets, which is stupid.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 36
# 957
02-15-2013, 10:23 PM
So I spent the majority of my day reading this entire thread, only lightly scanning a handful of posts. General consensus of issues people have that I have gleaned are as follows:

1) Lack of communication on Cryptic/PWE.

2) Stale content.

3) Poor rewards for said content.

4) Loopholes will always be 'exploited'

When people are forced to do stale/repetitive missions they will be more likely to find and use said 'exploits', which is why they become exploits. Like stoleviathan99 stated there is a reason these people are using the exploitative nature of your game mechanics. Pull your head out of the sand/metrics and figure the reasons out. The current state of star bases favor the mega fleets and are being exploited.
Exploit 1)
Step 1: Join small fleet
Step 2: Dump resources in and get tons of easy fleet credits
Step 3: Leave the fleet when the desired amount of credits has been attained
Step 4: Pay to join Mega Fleet X
Step 5: Buy what you want
Step 6: Leave and rejoin small fleet

Exploit 2)
Step 1: Create Mega Fleet X
Step 2: Spam recruitment and fleet invites
Step 3: Attain Tier 5
Step 4: Kick everyone out claiming either a) They aren't contributing enough or b) Make up some other baseless excuse if not too lazy.

Both of these exploits ARE being used. I realized after reading this thread that I really shouldn't care if my SB ever progresses. I will always be able to save up enough EC to buy my way into a T5 fleet and use their facilities so-to-speak. The ONLY thing you are doing with this nerf is creating more incentive to use these exploits. SB have zero function other than these stores and with these exploits they have even less purpose. Anyway </soapbox>

Good luck and fly safe.

(I just remembered I still have a PLEX sitting in my bank on EvE! Guess what I'm playing for the next month?)
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 11,010
# 958
02-15-2013, 10:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stoleviathan99 View Post
I'm sure they could afford to and I'd move for it but I can't say for sure they would after some of the back and forth here.

However, if they wanted to look at a marketing team, here's how I'd handle it, starting out...

Introduce a new position:

Junior Marketing Designer

This position spends 50% of its time as a QA tester, 25% in design meetings, and 25% coordinating with Brandon/PWE's outside Marketing and Cryptic's Chief Marketing Officer.

The Junior Marketing Designer compiles issues with community response and exploits/bugs and acts to anticipate them while analyzing the player needs that drive them.

JMDs answer to the QA lead then Dan Stahl and then the CMO in that order.

JMDs compile regular reports directly to the CMO, utilizing the information they gather, that Brandon gathers, and that they discover in the QA process. They have an observational role at high end design meetings (effectively, no vote) but Stahl may recognize them for feedback. They're expected to bring ideas from behavioral psychology and marketing into the mix.

Pluses would include degrees in psychology, marketing, organizational behavior, or communications. Strong oral and written competency required and a knowledge of the game they're assigned to is a plus, with activity in the community given strong consideration.

Try it out for 12 months. If it flops, cut the program and shift these folks to fulltime QA positions. If it succeeds, create Marketing Leads for each game and give the Marketing Lead a co-equal role in the design process with veto power, answering directly to the Executive Producer and CMO in such a way that the EP and CMO would need to agree to override a Marketing Lead's idea veto or to fire or reassign the Marketing Lead.
Hey, I would love that job!
http://i1151.photobucket.com/albums/o633/centersolace/189cux9khvl6ojpg_zpsca7ccff0.jpg

So inhumane superweapons, mass murder, and canon nonsense is okay, but speedos are too much for some people.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 702
# 959
02-15-2013, 10:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by crypticarmsman View Post
And it's an option that been discussed before ad naseum, and is so ridiculously easy to exploit:

1) Create Fleet

2) Find minimum amount of members needed to get the lowest cost on Fleet Projects.

3) Round Robin players in and out of the Fleet (keeping it at the required Fleet member number) and get Fleet to T5/Embassy to T3.

4) Once complete invite everyone back

For a system to work, it can't be so easily exploitable.
And? Its still gonna take months to get there. Make it so that as the fleet gains new accounts the costs scale up to prevent the round robin.

IE: Fleet is formed with 5 accounts. New account joins after one has left. Fleet history is at 6 accounts. Costs go up. That account leaves, and a new one joins. Fleet now has 7 accounts. Costs go up. etc.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,706
# 960
02-15-2013, 10:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by amayakitsune View Post
And? Its still gonna take months to get there. Make it so that as the fleet gains new accounts the costs scale up to prevent the round robin.

IE: Fleet is formed with 5 accounts. New account joins after one has left. Fleet history is at 6 accounts. Costs go up. That account leaves, and a new one joins. Fleet now has 7 accounts. Costs go up. etc.
Again, the trick is to just maintain the minimum number of members for the maximum gain. If they try to tweak it like you suggest; then a Fleet would be penalized for each member that left (and Guild movement is common and constant in any MMO.) And if they counted a person who left as a member, you'd have the same issue many are complaining about now - a small Fleet with high Project costs.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=91861979000&dateline=  1340755546
PWE Drone says, "Your STO community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
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