Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 443
# 1 Starbase Progression Feedback
02-14-2013, 05:37 AM
With all the issues with resource gathering (I'm looking at you FM's), why does Cryptic not introduce scaled fleet Starbases?

When you start your new fleet (and allow existing fleet leaders to make the choice); you would be required to select a membership cap at lets say 10, 25, 50, 100, 250, or the existing 500 captains. This maximum member limit would be permanent.

Then scale all SB projects contributions based on the selected max members.

Your thoughts?
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 860
# 2
02-14-2013, 06:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by philosophere View Post
With all the issues with resource gathering (I'm looking at you FM's), why does Cryptic not introduce scaled fleet Starbases?

When you start your new fleet (and allow existing fleet leaders to make the choice); you would be required to select a membership cap at lets say 10, 25, 50, 100, 250, or the existing 500 captains. This maximum member limit would be permanent.

Then scale all SB projects contributions based on the selected max members.

Your thoughts?
Here's a better thought... How bout people who decide to embark on the Fleet Holding development journey accept the fact that Cryptic's idea of fleets involves MANY players coming together for common enjoyment of the game rather than just another content avenyue that anyone can progress through.

Your fleet size SHOULD determine how efficiently your Fleet Holdings can progress. Very small fleets SHOULD take as long to reach Tier 1 as a massive fleet takes to reach Tier 5.

What is needed is fleet additional fleet holdings optimized for smaller fleets. A starbase may have multiple services unlocked. A smaller facility could have maybe one dedicated service associated with it, with five tiers that boost efficiency of that service. These smaller facilities would be granted to smaller fleets. If a fleet size is over a certain point, the fleet would not qualify.

A listening post, for example, could add 1-5 points to a faction's security rating within a sector. Designed for a "fleet" of 2 to 5 players. Approximate prograssion rate would be as follows based on dilithium and fleet mark payouts in all areas of the game:

2 players - 4 months
3 players - 3 months
4 players - 2 months
5 players - 1 month

So five players working on a listening post should be able to achieve Tier 5 in one month.

Cost in Dilithium per Tier 180000 RD

Required aging per Tier before unlock is available - 6 Days

Aging would be a time gate that prevents a holding from advancing too quickly. This way even if someone were to buy loads of Dilithium for Zen, they still could not advance the holding any quicker. It would take one month for a full five-man fleet to advance to Tier 5.

Tier 1 comes available on Day 6
Tier 2 comes available on Day 12
Tier 3 comes available on Day 18
Tier 4 comes available on Day 24
Tier 5 comes available on Day 30

Fleet Mark Requirements would work a similar way, which would be 75% of how many can be earned per hour over an 4-hour period, x 30.
I personally want a Star Trek game that is actually Star Trek. On a qualitative level that could be a lot of different things for a lot of different people. But on a quantitative level, if the developers were to watch star trek and make the game like what they see, then at least it will be a shot in the right direction, as far as I am concerned.
Career Officer
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 3,176
# 3
02-14-2013, 07:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sirsitsalot View Post
Here's a better thought... How bout people who decide to embark on the Fleet Holding development journey accept the fact that Cryptic's idea of fleets involves MANY players coming together for common enjoyment of the game rather than just another content avenyue that anyone can progress through.

Only 5 people are required to start a fleet. It can be argued that 5 people can be considered "many" people. Setting the bar at 25 was just plain silly IMO and serves only to be a massive time/resource sink to keep some people playing until new content can get added.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecosmic1 View Post
Anyone calling Valoreah a "Cryptic fanboy" must be new to the forum.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaguarskx View Post
The cost of actually commissioning an artisan to make a real physical model of my starship using 1 pound of 14k gold will probably cost less than creating a "gold ship" in STO.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 884
# 4
02-14-2013, 08:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by valoreah View Post
Only 5 people are required to start a fleet. It can be argued that 5 people can be considered "many" people. Setting the bar at 25 was just plain silly IMO and serves only to be a massive time/resource sink to keep some people playing until new content can get added.
Cryptic has said from the beginning that Fleet progression works like a bell curve with regards to members vs progression.

Small fleets will have a harder time gathering resources and advancing their starbase/embassy, while larger fleets will find end resources such as requisitions for buying fleet weapons/ships in high demand as there are more members then requistions. This was stated from the moment they announced the fleet system.

Cryptic has also stated repeatedly the reason for not scaling requirements is because it is highly exploitable. People can effectively Dismiss almost all Fleetmates, until they have a fleet size of 5 people, and then breeze through the progression until they have everything they want. New Limited project comes along. Dismiss most of your fleet, finish it in a week, grow back up again. This is what Cryptic is trying to avoid.

Yes, this results in small fleets or inactive fleets (fleets who may have larger numbers but really not many that work on fleet base progression) getting the short end of the straw, but that is an unfortunate side effect of balancing fairness into the game. Even then Cryptic has tried as best they could to accommodate smaller fleets.

Until you find a system that isn't explioted by dismissing members left and right as the "need" suits you, you are going to get the resolution you want. Even then I think really small fleets are never going to get the resolution they want. it just isn't possible.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 119
# 5
02-14-2013, 09:20 AM
My fleet of about 10 active members is doing just fine in the starbase progression.
We like it just the way it is.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 518
# 6
02-14-2013, 09:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by philosophere View Post
Then scale all SB projects contributions based on the selected max members.

Your thoughts?
It would avoid some of the issues, but IMO would be worse the the current problems.

If you had any plans to expand at some point you'd either be forced to pay the higher cost, or else be locked into a fleet of X size. Which is IMO a lose-lose.

The problem is, as others have pointed out. Small fleets of say 5-10 people are quite simply not meant to progress as fast as larger 25+ person fleets are. People keep looking for a way to fix something that I don't think is actually broken.

There is simply no good way of letting small fleets progress at what they seem to be a reasonable pace, with out making T5 a meaningless achievement for large fleets. I just don't think it's fair to large fleets to take away something from them, for the sake of those smaller fleets.

It's also not like T2 or T3 has nothing to offer, and that you must reach T5 to get anything out of the SB system.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 148
# 7
02-14-2013, 09:41 AM
I agree there needs to be a scaled progression in place, I chose to be in a small fleet to avoid the problems of being in a larger fleet, plus I actually know all the people in my 5 man fleet.

I see it all too often on the forums, people having issues with the fleet the're in because of some BS drama stemming from a fleet trying to deal with 500 players all wanting the new shiny, or a fleet being hijacked due to a leaders decision to leave the game and sell his account.
InGame - @Darth_Tauri
Joined - 9/2011
"You Best Make Peace With Your Dear & Fluffy Lord" - Malcolm Reynolds
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 378
# 8 Starbase Scaling Idea what for
02-14-2013, 10:11 AM
I think the problem is players want to solo the starbase or try it with 5 friends. a fleet is not 5 friends and under.

"In the battle of retaking DS9 it is said that the dominion fleet consisting of 1250 outnumbers the federation fleet 2:1. This would mean at least 600 ships are present. As these ships consist of 2 fleet one of them being the 12th it seems, if the other fleets are comparable to the size of those, starfleet has at least 3600 ships at their disposal"

So following what happen on ds9 a fleet is about 300 ships that mean 300 members. 300 members can take on the starbase project with ease. start recruiting.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 199
# 9
02-14-2013, 10:23 AM
If fleets recruited properly, they wouldn't be having membership issues.

I have a stockpile of 50k+ dilithium and a big heaping pile of fleet marks, and I've never joined a fleet to share them with. A big part of the reason is because 95% of STO fleets don't make any effort to sell themselves to new members. The tacitly accepted recruiting method in this game is to stalk social zones looking for unaffiliated players, and send them unsolicited fleet invites without an introduction or any information about the group. The "Find Fleet" mechanic in the social window is no help, because most fleets just choose every single tag (including race tags that don't apply to their faction), and give a horribly vague description of themselves - or none at all.

I've never seen a game where player groups make less effort to draw in fresh blood, or need it more. What gives?
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 378
# 10
02-14-2013, 10:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by janusforbeare View Post
If fleets recruited properly, they wouldn't be having membership issues.

I have a stockpile of 50k+ dilithium and a big heaping pile of fleet marks, and I've never joined a fleet to share them with. A big part of the reason is because 95% of STO fleets don't make any effort to sell themselves to new members. The tacitly accepted recruiting method in this game is to stalk social zones looking for unaffiliated players, and send them unsolicited fleet invites without an introduction or any information about the group. The "Find Fleet" mechanic in the social window is no help, because most fleets just choose every single tag (including race tags that don't apply to their faction), and give a horribly vague description of themselves - or none at all.

I've never seen a game where player groups make less effort to draw in fresh blood, or need it more. What gives?
Here is an example. guys recruit, here is one guy show him what you have to offer him.
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