Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 17
# 11 Different strokes...
03-20-2013, 12:10 PM
Hey Milandare,

I roll with my Fed Sci captain alot (my KDF Sci BoP has a completely different purpose), and I have a few thoughts on your build and how I'd alter it for my playstyle. (Read: subjective enjoyment of being more aggressive with my abilities.)

Firstly, I'd slap on the full Jem'Hadar set. Anti-proton sweep AoE is pretty fantastic to open up with and synergizes well with other science abilities. (Even if you don't have too much into Flow Capacitors.) Assimilated Borg set is another good alternative because of its power bonuses and built-in tractor beam, allowing you to use that ability slot for something else (or double up if you have a TB fetish. =])

Secondly and most importantly, there are few skills where it pays off mathematically to max 9 points (this includes using consoles to boost them that high). This chart saves alot of frustration: http://home.comcast.net/~amicus/Skil...%20Effects.htm

On a Sci vessel like yours, I'd focus a bit more on offense/debuffs. Front two energy weapons should be Dual Beam Banks or 1x Dual Beam 1x Beam Array or 1x Dual Beam 1x Cannon depending on your firing arc preferences. As the other gentleman said, Breen Cluster Transphasic is a cheap way of not having to spec Torpedo Spread, but I also like Plasma Torpedoes (with High Yield) alot on Sci Vessels. Rear weapons should be 2x Turrets 1x Mine for DPS/power efficiency. Aft Beam arrays not needed on a vessel that wants to keep itself facing forward.

Consoles: Science--I'd swap out 1 of the shield buff consoles and 1 of the particle generators for 2x Power Insulator consoles. Resisting power drain is king. Your other consoles are pretty much how I'd do it.

To sum it up, a more even skill distribution benefits you more because of rapidly diminshing skill point returns at 6+ points (especially tier 5 skills). You could try a few alternate abilities like Tyken's Rift, Viral Matrix, and Charged Particle Burst to mix things up since they're pretty fun. But that's just my take since I tend to think of a Sci captain/Sci vessel as a good jack of all trades dmg/debuffing/armadillo of vengeful returned dmg class.

Last edited by wifflecondom; 03-20-2013 at 05:11 PM.
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,123
# 12
03-20-2013, 12:19 PM
**Marked for reference**
Note to self: Alot of this info adaptable to the Kamarag project beamboat. Check stats- jem set more desired over breen ?
(yay !!, another phased polaron user)
KBF Lord MalaK
Awoken Dead

Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG

Last edited by lordmalak1; 03-20-2013 at 12:23 PM.
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 566
# 13
03-28-2013, 02:35 PM
Lots of useful information in this thread, but unfortunately I find the RSVs to be some of the most tragically unappealing-looking ships in Starfleet (just my two cents, YMMV). I'm going to see how many lessons from this thread I can apply to a Recon or a Fleet Quasar (the most obvious takeaway is that I can't do EWP since I won't have the LC Eng slot).

Later on,
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 17
# 14
03-30-2013, 04:00 PM
Originally Posted by lordmalak1 View Post
**Marked for reference**
Note to self: Alot of this info adaptable to the Kamarag project beamboat. Check stats- jem set more desired over breen ?
(yay !!, another phased polaron user)
I just prefer Jem'Hadar set over Breen in general because of its better defensive buffs (individual pieces and set bonuses). Breen is pretty decent for Sci, though.

Originally Posted by generator88 View Post
Lots of useful information in this thread, but unfortunately I find the RSVs to be some of the most tragically unappealing-looking ships in Starfleet (just my two cents, YMMV). I'm going to see how many lessons from this thread I can apply to a Recon or a Fleet Quasar (the most obvious takeaway is that I can't do EWP since I won't have the LC Eng slot).
I run a Recon Sci on my Fed Sci captain, so it's basically the same build concept. Let me know how your build goes.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 195
# 15
03-31-2013, 08:38 PM
Thanks everyone for more fantastic input! Sorry I didn't reply earlier, I was too daft to notice this had run to two pages.

Hi Lord Malak, you bet - Phased Polarons for the crits!

Hi Generator88 - if you think the ship is ugly check out my Alien Captain in my sig below. But you're right on, the Eng slot for EWP makes a huge difference. Think of the ship as a wrecking ball if it helps

Hi wiffle,

I have to agree with you on the full Jem'Hadar. I haven't found anything, even among the T5 Fleet goodies, to encourage me to do anything else. I guess I already have two TBs, I assume the Assimilated Borg TB has linked cooldown? Otherwise it'd be great fun to have 3.

The skills chart is incredible. I will mini-max my skills when I can afford my next respec (might be a little while). But very happy to know about this. Your consoles suggestion is also something I'll keep in mind perhaps for PvP. For now I just need more damage. Other suggestions are potentially good fun power and shield draining powers but for now I want to see how far I can go with movement control and hull damage.

I haven't even thought of the Breen set. Now I need to go learn some more. Thanks Wiffle!

Glass Cannon Science (Beaker Cannon)

The further offense/debuff focus you suggest is where I'm headed. Not with the weapons yet. I tend to be broadsiding a lot (spinning), due to the amount of aggro I generate, so beams are nice, but as with every suggestion in this thread I will try that out. Meanwhile I created an aggressive BOFF layout (easy switch of Commander and Ensign Sci boffs):

"Safe" Boffs:
Human: TB1, TSS2, ST3, GW3, Human: EPtS1, EPtS2, EWP1, Jem'Hadar: TT1, APD1
Human: PH1, HE2
Reman: TB1

"Starbase 24" Boffs:
Reman: TB1, ST2, PS1, GW3, Human: EPtS1, EPtS2, EWP1, Jem'Hadar: TT1, APD1
Human: PH1, HE2
Human: TB1

Photonic Shockwave doesn't seem all that popular, but I get extra AoE damage after I've GW'd the stunned mob and flown through dropping EWP. With larger mobs in SB24 the cascade damage is amazing. Shockwave also stuns the opponent for a brief time which can save me if I get too much aggro on my way into the mob (if I fire GW early, or if delayed by opponent sci powers). Clustering and Shockwave might seem a contradiction, but with GW in place the stunned opponents scatter and re-bundle for a spectacular implosion. The shockwave can poke a hole in a shield making EWP much more effective. When it works (situational) it clears the field. I've downgraded my Science Team and dropped TSS2 to fit it all in. Further tweaks to improve defense will be critical. In SB24 I kamikaze into the thickest parts, cause massive pileups then return to the fray after my frequent demise. With practice I outlast more of these frays. With this tactic, finishing the enermies off is critical. This build has no problems in Cure Space Normal and Fleet Mark events, but mostly I'm in SB24 tuning tactics. It is definitely a BOFF layout for PvE.

Fleet Afoot

I filled out a budding fleet of 5 folks to begin with. They then failed to login for a while, so I took over. It was a lot of fun designing the fleet emblem and costuming my BOFFs and ship with it. I got to Tier 1 quickly and bought my Fleet Olympic, not dependent on anyone else. It is good to be king. But the insane effort required to improve the fleet further made the grind meaningless. Then the old fleeties came back and demanded to know who gave me authority to change anything (uh, wait, who are you?) which was all the excuse I needed to try something else. Half an hour later I joined a great T5 fleet. The only negative is that I can't change my main costumes ever again as I'll lose my custom fleet emblems. Developers please consider making this cool tool available to more than the small number of Fleet owners! Badges for units within a fleet perhaps. But my new Fleet channel is far nicer than Zone chat, making the grind more bearable, and I don't miss having control as I already have my fleet ship. Once I've proven my commitment by gathering 400,000 Fleet Credits I'll also get access to T5 Fleet gear. I haven't seen anything I need yet (I can browse the shops) but ideas are welcome.
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 17
# 16
04-02-2013, 08:41 PM
I dig your testing layout, Milandare. It's inspiring me to try something similar to see how it feels. And yes, Photonic Shockwave is an underrated skill, mostly because you have to be judicious with its timing when combined with skills like Gravity Well/Tyken's Rift/Eject Warp Plasma or when using Tricobalt devices. Sounds like you're taking advantage of more exotic damage than I do on my Sci captain (especially because I don't have the eng slot for EWP on my Recon Sci vessel).

Something I've been messing with on No Win Scenario: hit a pack of ships with GW, close distance, hit Polarize Hull/Brace for Impact as necessary, fire in a High Yield Tricobalt torpedo. Fly into the pack, drop Tricobalt mines, then position myself on their backside to where my Photonic Shockwave will push them back into the well and Tricobalt rift. It's super fun. Then I have the rest of my layout for healing.

I'm very interested to know of other PvE strats with Tractor Beam/Photonic Shockwave because I rarely use TB in PvE except on my KDF BoP.

One more thing: I've also been experimenting with Feedback Pulse on my Sci and Eng. In the right situation, that skill can WRECK. I've had the best results with it on my Negh'Var tank/healer build.

Science is fun, kids. Long live the Beaker Cannon!

Last edited by wifflecondom; 04-02-2013 at 09:00 PM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 195
# 17
04-07-2013, 09:16 AM
So much overkill I was missing.

1. I had to have wiffle's extra AoE from Feedback Pulse (FBP1). I mostly use HE2 to clear plasma, which HE1 does just as well so I use HE1 instead replacing a tractor beam. TB is not scalable. If I have one target worth my time then maybe it will hit itself harder with Feedback.

2. I had to have mines. Tricobalt of course, now very exciting at point blank range. The mines replace a rear beam.

3. I must have a Borg TB (set). Maybe later when I can afford it.

"Kamikaze" Boffs:
Reman: TB1, ST2, PS1, GW3, Human: EPtS1, EPtS2, EWP1, Jem'Hadar: TT1, APD1
Human: PH1, FBP1
Human: HE1

The result is pyrrhic in SB24, but if I hit hard and fast with everything I survive, and the event goes very quickly. No picking at the edges, just dive right in. I have also started elite STFs with my fleet. I am the most fragile but I'm improving as my T5 team mates keep the aggro under control. Crowd control and AoE are very versatile.

Pros and cons. Escorts still do more damage. The Beaker Cannon is a fun and close second place. So many powers in a short time takes practice to produce improvement after each little reconfiguration. Graphics cause lag when flying through special effects, especially trailing warp plasma, and timing is everything in the eye of the storm. I need to find the right parameter to reduce this issue without losing the pretty pictures.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 195
# 18
05-06-2013, 09:54 PM
Further news from the bubble bus,

Now with Fleet upgrades! 10% faster Science cool downs, extra Threat, Fleet shields. Further overhaul of this ship is pending LoR and PvP lessons; PvP also awaits T5 rep bonuses.

I installed the ACT parser. I seem to get good value from Science; Photonic Shockwave underachieves, but still has some tactical uses and may benefit from a Doff upgrade. I can do 13K peak DPS in SB24 but usually peak around 6K as cool downs clash. I also do far less DPS without a crowd, timing is everything for this attention seeker. It scores very well at "damage taken", tanking so that top-spec escorts can focus on doing 50% more damage. Science abilities produce half my damage, torps do a quarter, a bit more than the beams, and explosions do the rest. I suspect crits are low-ish around 7% (+2% with EWP, -2% with torps).

I revisited my ship options. For 3 Science Boffs and an EWP Engineer I could consider the D'Kyr (weaker, albeit prettier) or the Fleet Nebula. The latter boosts hull but lacks turn, so while I shield tank I stick with what I have until RCS changes with the LoR patch. I can trial DPB in place of APD and see how it parses, although I fear I will be very squishy. 2xEPtA may also be an option after the patch, but on paper it doesn?t seem great. I still have some XI modules to upgrade when I win the lottery. Meanwhile this is my current build:

Fleet Research Science Vessel Retrofit

Sci consoles: 2x Emitter Array XII [ShH][+Th], 2x Particle Generators XII [+Th][Pla] ? Have not confirmed if plasma helps
Eng consoles: Assimilated Module, RCS Accelerator XI, Monotanium XI, Graviton Pulse Generator ∞
Tac consoles: 2x Polaron Phase Modulator XI - XII is so expensive!
Front weapons: 2x Phased Polaron XII [Acc][CrtH], Hargh'peng Torpedo Launcher XI
Rear weapons: Phased Polaron XII [Acc][CrtH], Hargh'peng Torpedo Launcher XI, Tricobalt Mine Launcher XII [CrtD][CrtH]x2
Engines: Elite Fleet Efficient Combat Impulse Engines Mk XII [Spd]x2[Turn][Pow] - cheaper than Lobi Shop Jem?Hadar
Shields: Elite Fleet Adaptive Resilient Shield Array Mk XII [Cap]x2[ResB][Adapt]
Deflector: Elite Fleet Axion Deflector Array MK XII [PartG][CoSys][SsD][SciCdr]
Devices: Engine Batteries, Weapon Batteries, Subspace Field Modulator

Reman: TB1, ST2, PSW1, GW3, Human: EPtS1, EPtS2, EWP1, Jem?Hadar: TT1, APD1
Human: TB1, HE1
Human: PH1

2x Development Lab Scientist: chance to reduce cool down for ST3 and buff
2x Shield Distribution Officer: chance to heal from hits after BFI3
Photonic Scientist: cascading PSW1 30% per victim - Faster effect than cascading GW3

S.Attack Patterns 6; S.Energy Weapons 6; S.Maneuvers 6; S.Energy Weapon Spec 9
S. Weapons Training 9; S.Projectile Weapons 6; S.Targeting Systems 6; S.Projectile Weapon Spec 9

Driver Coil 3; Structural Integrity 6; S.Electro-Plasma Systems 9; S.Engine Performance 3; S.Armor Reinforcements 3
S.Subsystem Repair 3; S.Impulse Thrusters 6; S.Hull Plating 3; S.Auxiliary Performance 3
S.Hull Repair 6; S.Warp Core Efficiency 3; S.Warp Core Potential 6; S.Shield Performance 3

S.Flow Capacitors 3; S.Power Insulators 9; S.Graviton Generators 9; S.Inertial Dampeners 3
S.Shield Emitters 9; S.Shield Systems 9; S.Particle Generators 9

Strategy: Kamikaze.
Gather and dive bomb for cascading warp core breaches.
10 to 8 km: Aux power maxxed, alpha strike with GW3/SNB3/Sensor Scan/Target Subsystems:Engines/Beams
8 to 3 km: APD1 to buff/debuff, ScatteringField3 to buff, FBP1 when getting hit. Option to EM for speed. Heal as required: TT1 if all damage is front, ST2 for overall heal/clear/buff, BFI3 panic button (some hits then heal), PH1 to clear tractors, HE2 to clear plasma (including your own if you get stuck). Optional TB1 inside 5km or save it for clean-up.
If you?re late and multiple ships are already exploding then you might avoid them.
3 to -1 km: fly-through running EWP1, drop Trico Mine on entry and PSW1 on exit.
Cooling down: TB1, Beam/Torp, Mines; circle to spread shield damage, ScienceFleet to circle faster. PhotonicFleet3, FleetSupport2 when available. TB1 (or else EM) against Borg Torps. Heal others with HE1, APD1, ST2, TT1 if you can live without the heals.

Fire-beams-and-torps <else> EPtS2 (in tray 10, slot 3) <else> EPtS1 (in tray 10, slot 4)
/bind ` "FirePhasersTorps$$ +TrayExecByTray 9 2$$ +TrayExecByTray 9 3$$"
ST3 (in tray 10, slot 5)<else> Subspace Field Modulator (in tray 10, slot 6)<else> ScatteringField3 (in tray 10, slot 7)
/bind 1 "+TrayExecByTray 9 4$$ +TrayExecByTray 9 5$$ +TrayExecByTray 9 6"

Last edited by milandare; 05-06-2013 at 09:58 PM.
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 3,439
# 19
05-07-2013, 08:15 AM
Hargh'peng Torpedo Launcher?

Really ... now THAT's an interesting option.

I may have missed it above but I'm curious on your thoughts for the GPGen console.
Kathryn S. Beringer - The Dawn Patrol

Solaris build - Veritatum Liquido Cernene
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 195
# 20
05-07-2013, 08:03 PM
I find Hargh'pengs do 80% more damage with the secondary detonation (and a little bit of DoT) than the primary impact. Other torps might give better spike damage by exploding all at once, but the delay means my opponents can be more tightly bundled at explosion time. By then I am pointing in another direction. Secondary detonation can also be triggered to clear spam by destroying the victim. I don't get nearly as much value out of my Tricobalt mine but I suspect I'm using that wrong.

The Graviton Pulse Generator's area of effect stun ensures more opponents fall into the Gravity Well. On this forum I often see the GPG described as "cheese". That just means it is effective but requires a counter ability that PvP players prefer not to carry. It lasts quite a while if not countered. It takes twice as long as Gravity Well to cool down so it is important to have a lot of opponents in front of you (within 10km) when using it. Opponents lose most of their mobility but can still shoot. I hope to measure its impact by capturing a lot of dive bomb runs with and without GPG and compare AoE damage. It feels very effective.

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