Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 120
# 281
02-23-2013, 12:43 PM
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
beam arrays on it would act just like any other broad sider. i bet a little overcaping, a little maco shield, and a little borg console would go a long way toward dealing with that bland increase in dps. or 4 cannons and a torp. good weapons energy with 5 DHCs should be monstrous though. you don't want to be dropping below 90 or so energy to be dealing good damage.
Something that became quite interesting was the correlation between hits/sec and the DPS affect. You can see some of it in the graph. At a specific point, increasing the hits/sec started affecting the DPS. DHC have a lot less hits per second than turrets. I believe the 5xDHC 0xTurrets resulted in a good result because of the lower hits/sec that resulted in less power drain. It appears that up to a specific point of hits/sec the power drain doesn't play a role. You can see it in the straight line between 2xDHC 0xTurrets to 5xDHX 0xTurrets.

I have noticed that the weapon damage is fixed to the power level it had when it activated. Similar to how most heals work. So as the power level drops during the fire cycle it doesn't affect the damage. But the next weapon that activates might activate at a lower power level and cycle at the new setting. Each "lick" of the cannon affects a drain point. So as a rapid fire starts up a large number of cannons start their fire cycle at full power. With turrets the number of licks are increased dramatically so some of the cannons towards the end of the sequence activate at a lower power setting. We can see that we still receive an over all benefit from adding turrets but it does diminish.

I will get my beam data together and list it as well. I will do up to 8 beams. I think people will find it interesting, since I know 8 beams are overly redundant. But the graph will demonstrate it. What will be important is to study the Hits per Weapon per Second of the Beams. Once that value drops dramatically, that's when you have reached the redundant number.

Back to the Hits/sec. It is important to note that if we have a 2.5% proc chance and an average 6.7 hits per second we will proc on average every 5.97 seconds. With a 3.27 hits per second we will see a proc on average every 12.2 seconds. This is assuming no immunity to the proc and no hits being missed.
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 993
# 282
02-23-2013, 01:26 PM
Nice data there pug, thanks.
Division Hispana
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,366
# 283
02-23-2013, 03:08 PM
Originally Posted by pug02 View Post
What combination would you like to see? I have a lot of test results but cluttering a graph with too many becomes pointless. Would you like to see sets of beam arrays? ie. 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 beam array comparisons? Or combinations of Cannon and beam arrays?
I would love to see a comparision of DHCs to DCs and mixing them to see what happens. Similar to how you mixed in the DBB personally. And thanks for your efforts.

Also, my understanding of the mechanics is this and my limited testing has worked with it.

A weapon cycle is two parts, firing and cooldown. Cannon weapons fire for .5 seconds and cooldown for 1. Beams fire for 4 seconds and cooldown for 1.

When a weapon is in the firing cycle the power is reserved. It is released the moment it goes into cooldown. A weapon will check the weapon power for each individual shot.

DHCs fire one shot.
All other cannons fire two shots.
Beams fire four shots.

So if you were to fire say a DHC, a cannon, and a turret at 125 power it would look like this:
DHC fire at 125 power
Cannon first shot at 113 power
Turret first shot at 105 power
Cannon second shot at 105 power
Turret second shot at 105 power
Weapons enter cooldown and reset.

That is what makes beams so power hungry and is why over-capping weapon power has no effect on DHCs because that extra power is only shoved into the system in between shots during the firing cycle.

Also from my understanding CRF reduces the cooldown length of cannons and fire at will adds an extra shot to the cycle in addition to reducing the cooldown.

The above is AFAIK.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,726
# 284
02-23-2013, 03:31 PM
the damage a weapon deals is based off the power level you have the exact server tic the shot is fired. a weapons cycle does not deal damage the same way a heal over time heals based on the power level of its activation at only

part of why DHCs are better is because they only draw their power for half of their cycle, and then return it. they don't suck the power for the whole 4 seconds like a DC or anything else does.

8 beam arrays are best, once you overcap sufficiently. if you find them an 8th beam doing more harm then good then your not giving yourself enough power. aside from mine spam, theres not much else to use on a cruiser for dealing damage then ether all beams or a single/turret build. if you main intend is to deal damage, weapons power needs to be the priority.

any 8 beam test, where you don't have enough power to use 8 beams, is worthless information
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,427
# 285
02-23-2013, 03:57 PM
I'd second what Drunk said... overcapping is something that's nice to have for DHCs but an absolute must for beam arrays. With beams, a great portion of your damage (I'm inclined to say the majority after the first one or two firing cycles begins) becomes essentially useless because the drain is so debilitating. You really have to stack as many passive sources of system power as possible to make beams even moderately functional.

vids and guides and stuff

[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,366
# 286
02-23-2013, 04:08 PM
I would also love to see if a cutting beam replacing a turret increases or decreases DPS because of it's odd firing cycle.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 135
# 287
02-23-2013, 04:09 PM
So help all my enemies if my jhec had 5 forward weapons. I've learned how to cap it at 179 weapon power 90% of the time. KDF side I can get it to 206 because of plasmonic leech and maco shield (when it is proced.)

Question has anyone noticed missed up timings with 5 dhc? When I'm flying my andorian in pvp or pve it seems sometimes that the 5th dhc fires late and or just gets off rhythm. Maybe I'm seeing things but it just seems because of the short cooldowns of DHC weapons they seem to mess up a bit kind of like multiple torps. We want this help build support!
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,192
# 288
02-23-2013, 09:29 PM
The real question is, does overcapping really work ? Especially with beams ? And how much ? I have seen some data on beams and the difference was about 6%.

Last edited by dalnar83; 02-23-2013 at 09:36 PM.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,726
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,192
# 290
02-24-2013, 03:08 AM
Thats all nice, but the test sample was only 6 cycles. Not sure that's enough to make a statement about the average numbers.

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