Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 220
# 11
02-16-2013, 07:21 AM
Please remember when reading their figures that their Cryptics numbers, not the actual numbers players are actually putting up.

Cryptic comes to the conclusion you don't have a life and therefore can grind for 8 to 10 hours a day to get all of your available Omega Marks, Romulan Marks. Fleet Marks, EC and Lobis that you get from lockboxes opened with keys purchased with the EC you spent all day grinding for.

They most likely include accounts that have been abandoned now that the grind has hit WoW-like proportions.
Click here to see the true story of the KDF and Cryptic!

"...just look at my track record for making the improvements that I said we would with the KDF and judge by that." - Dan Stahl
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,424
# 12
02-16-2013, 07:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebumble View Post
Please remember when reading their figures that their Cryptics numbers, not the actual numbers players are actually putting up.

Cryptic comes to the conclusion you don't have a life and therefore can grind for 8 to 10 hours a day to get all of your available Omega Marks, Romulan Marks. Fleet Marks, EC and Lobis that you get from lockboxes opened with keys purchased with the EC you spent all day grinding for.

They most likely include accounts that have been abandoned now that the grind has hit WoW-like proportions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dastahl
When we say "casual" play - we calculate that a player can earn all inputs necessary to complete the Rep system by playing three 1-hour session per week. That is very casual when compared to the greater amount of time most players actually play. We do not anticiapte anyone needing to trade for any Dilithium in order to complete this system as they should be able to easily earn enough in three 1-hour sessions per week given the amount of Dilithium players earn on average per session.
Your equating systems balanced around playtime of 3 hours a week with 56-70 hours a week?
nynik | Join Date: Dec 2009
<Dev> Oaks@dstahl: *checks for CBS listening devices in the office*
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 220
# 13
02-16-2013, 07:39 AM
Anyone can finish anything 3 hours per week. Realistically, how long will it take them to finish the rep system at that speed? They want you locked down for the better part of a year doing their rep system, really?

Besides, how do you know D.Stahls lying? His fingers are typing. Don't ever trust the non-answers and convoluted reasoning's he tries to foist off on the masses.

Read the last Ask Cryptic. He gives no definitive answers. Ifs, maybes and we'd like to's. He can talk about the May update, but then he can't talk about the May update, but then he can talk about the May update...

Do you really think 25 players can get what they need 3 hours a week to complete 3 ((Or more.))major ((Tier 3 or higher)) starbase projects? FM missions alone would take up the 3 hours per week their online and playing. ((And if they actually make their quota, I want to know what missions their running..XD ))

Its all smoke and mirrors...
Click here to see the true story of the KDF and Cryptic!

"...just look at my track record for making the improvements that I said we would with the KDF and judge by that." - Dan Stahl

Last edited by thebumble; 02-16-2013 at 07:58 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 4,255
# 14
02-16-2013, 09:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebumble View Post
They want you locked down for the better part of a year doing their rep system, really?
Absolutely. That timeframe means they don't have to spend as much time making "new" content. Which means DStahl can keep ...

Quote:
Besides, how do you know D.Stahls lying? His fingers are typing. Don't ever trust the non-answers and convoluted reasoning's he tries to foist off on the masses.
Exactly!
Captain
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,541
# 15
02-16-2013, 09:57 AM
I can't help but think two things are going on:

1) Cryptic's ultimate goal is to keep the players playing the game. So, on average if it takes a group of players at least three months of persistent gameplay to reach a marker in one specific part of the entire game, then Cryptic has achieved their goal.

2) The general playerbase expects to have the high end stuff attainable within a short amount of time. Much shorter than the game designers anticipate based on metrics the designers created. Metrics based on a design to get players to play the game.

In other words, there is a disconnect/conflict between the needs of the company (to get you to play the game long-term) and the needs to the consumer (to minimize game time and maximize rewards for time spent).

Humbly speaking, it's not in Cryptics interest to make the requirements cheaper at all as it would defeat their ultimate goal.
Kathryn S. Beringer - The Dawn Patrol

Solaris build - Veritatum Liquido Cernene
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 220
# 16
02-16-2013, 10:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmdrscarlet View Post
I can't help but think two things are going on:

1) Cryptic's ultimate goal is to keep the players playing the game. So, on average if it takes a group of players at least three months of persistent gameplay to reach a marker in one specific part of the entire game, then Cryptic has achieved their goal.

2) The general playerbase expects to have the high end stuff attainable within a short amount of time. Much shorter than the game designers anticipate based on metrics the designers created. Metrics based on a design to get players to play the game.

In other words, there is a disconnect/conflict between the needs of the company (to get you to play the game long-term) and the needs to the consumer (to minimize game time and maximize rewards for time spent).

Humbly speaking, it's not in Cryptics interest to make the requirements cheaper at all as it would defeat their ultimate goal.

But 3 months is an attainable goal if that marker is important enough((ie:Starbase)). Not to far in the future. Their talking 7 months minimum for an 'average' fleet of 25.
That's just for Starbases.

The rep system, while actually not bad, is horribly restricting. Even if you started a new character, all the engame content is time gated. You can actually sit down and figure out how long it will take you to unlock if you bothered to use a calculator. That's not a goal, its an alarm clock.

Wake me up from the grind when its over...
Click here to see the true story of the KDF and Cryptic!

"...just look at my track record for making the improvements that I said we would with the KDF and judge by that." - Dan Stahl
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 537
# 17
02-16-2013, 10:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebumble View Post
But 3 months is an attainable goal if that marker is important enough((ie:Starbase)). Not to far in the future. Their talking 7 months minimum for an 'average' fleet of 25.
That's just for Starbases.
Ah a few mix-ups here.

7 months is the theoretical minimum it would take to max out the starbase completely. If every project gets instantly filled as soon as it's available. They certainly don't expect average 25 man fleets to reach a full base in 7 months.

And the 3 months example in the OP post are just for the 4 Projekts to upgrade the base, the shipyard, the replicator and the transwarp conduit from T3 to T4 as a random example. Assuming you had the XP for it in all 3 categories ready to go.

For the whole base to be completed by an average 25 man fleet according to their numbers... they are counting on many many years. The numbers for projects are on STOwiki, one could calculate it, but it'd be some work. I expect it to take 3 years at least. The T4->T5 upgrade alone is about twice as much as the 3 months for the T3->T4.
Captain
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 4,255
# 18
02-16-2013, 12:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmdrscarlet View Post
Humbly speaking, it's not in Cryptics interest to make the requirements cheaper at all as it would defeat their ultimate goal.
Their goal, however is to keep people playing. And as we've seen in other MMOs, when it gets too grindy, you drive the players away. There's a balance that needs to be struck. And as game designers, specifically MMORPG designers, they should be better at finding the sweet spot than they are.

But that's Cryptic. They do half measures, incomplete mechanics implementations, and have never shown much talent for end-game MMORPG design.

There needs to be incentive. And if the grind is too much for the average player, they won't bother with it since they don't get a return on their investment.

I look at the Omega Marks grind and the MACO armor. Is the difference between MK X MACO armor and MK XII significant enough to justify the cost in time and resources? For the content I play? No.
Career Officer
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 145
# 19
02-16-2013, 03:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebumble View Post
Please remember when reading their figures that their Cryptics numbers, not the actual numbers players are actually putting up.

Cryptic comes to the conclusion you don't have a life and therefore can grind for 8 to 10 hours a day to get all of your available Omega Marks, Romulan Marks. Fleet Marks, EC and Lobis that you get from lockboxes opened with keys purchased with the EC you spent all day grinding for.

They most likely include accounts that have been abandoned now that the grind has hit WoW-like proportions.
you do know you don't have to have all your shiny's as fast as possible

your not in a Progress based Raid Guild where you have to max your gear as soon as it drops or risk banishment
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