Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 233
# 1 Jem'Hadar Attack Ship
02-16-2013, 09:22 AM
This is an extract from STO wiki...

"With a hull strength almost as good as cruisers but sacrificing science for more engineering options, the Jem'Hadar Attack Ship is the most powerful, maneuverable and durable escort in the game. With 5 tactical consoles and the highest escort class hull strength and maneuverability, the ship is capable of putting out as much firepower as a Fleet Tactical Escort Retrofit while still taking more damage than a Fleet Patrol Escort. The ship's turn rate is comparable to that of a Klingon Bird of Prey, allowing the ship to outmaneuver all other comparable escorts. Its flexibility is further expanded upon by the inclusion of two universal Lieutenant bridge officer seats, allowing players to tailor the ship to their play style."

I'm afraid I do not understand why Cryptic would choose to blatantly overpower one Escort above all the others except for profit reasons. I was listening to Geko describing balance on Priority One last night and I honestly believe that nobody cares that PvP is being destroyed by these ships.

The uniqueness of both factions are absolutely destroyed by the sheer overpowerment of this vessel compared to other escorts. The hull strength is laughable along with the ability to self heal which seems to make every other vessel in the game look weak by comparison.

You honestly see more Dominion ships in PvP now then you do Federation or Klingon and that really concerns me because should Cryptic not be promoting balance? Not releasing one ship that will get them profit but will completely break the balance of the game?

How can other Escorts compete with this vessel? Why is this the case. I'm not raging or flaming... I am just asking why this ship has to be so massively overpowered that it outclasses nearly every other ship in the game. Its really quite embarrassing from a company that wants to promote "balance" and did a good job with the Ambassador (I think).

When I see these vessels, I just sigh and ignore them. They are not worth fighting or even acknowledging their presence in the game.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 39
# 2 Indeed, totally overpowered
02-16-2013, 10:28 AM
Totally agree, combined with a 2pc jem space set and polaron weps they are so overpowered... Actually the shield modifier should be set to 0.6 on this vessel, hull points reduced to 28.000, that would equal the superior firepower.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 233
# 3
02-16-2013, 11:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by roejspinodji View Post
Totally agree, combined with a 2pc jem space set and polaron weps they are so overpowered... Actually the shield modifier should be set to 0.6 on this vessel, hull points reduced to 28.000, that would equal the superior firepower.
So could someone explain how this is "balanced or fair" to players that choose not to play money because the "Not Pay 2 Win" argument does not really apply here. I know its 500 Million on the Exchange but it still doesn't negate the original layout of the ship in relation to every other escort in the game?
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 223
# 4
02-16-2013, 01:58 PM
Seriously?? LOL... Bad boys and girls. I know my bug ship in and out including its weaknesses. You act like its the end all be all ship of the game. That is so far from the truth.

Look at your stats a little closer, play it with the jem set on... In PvE the ship is a good little ship. In PvP, you get your arse handed to you just as you would any other ship.

We really need to get off the mentality of "Nerf this, nerf that." How about you buff you playing skills and actually learn the science behind the game and come back in 2 years and see how you do.. Just because of a lack of skill doesn't mean the game needs to be nerfed just so you can stop crying nerf in the corner of quarks bar on DS9...

And the bug ship is trade-able if never opened. It came in the Winter event boxes which were FREE if you did the winter race. So to say they are p2w is only half true. Yes someone did pay for them initially unless you got yours from the winter boxes but that doesn't make them completely P2W.

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Last edited by blznfun; 02-16-2013 at 02:27 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 558
# 5
02-16-2013, 02:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blznfun View Post
We really need to get off the mentality of "Nerf this, nerf that." How about you buff you playing skills and actually learn the science behind the game and come back in 2 years and see how you do.. Just because of a lack of skill doesn't mean the game needs to be nerfed just so you can stop crying nerf in the corner of quarks bar on DS9...
+1 Agreed.

I don't even own one of these and despite the fact that I constantly die at the hands of one even in my Mobius, the first thought in my head isn't to ask for it (whatever ship it may be) to be nerfed but rather; will the guy flying the bug give me some pointers on how to improve my technique.

It's bad enough that PVE is too easy, PVP is the only challenge left in nearly every game!
"The world ain't all sunshine and rainbows. It's a very mean and nasty place and I don't care how tough you are it will beat you to your knees and keep you there permanently if you let it. You, me, or nobody is gonna hit as hard as life. But it ain't about how hard ya hit. It's about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward." - Rocky Balboa (2006)
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 223
# 6
02-16-2013, 02:19 PM
Plus the Jem ship has been out for over a year now. If they haven't nerfed it by now, I doubt they will.

Also, reading a Wiki without realizing that anyone can write that stuff and make it sound even more uber or less uber just by the select choice of words they use to write it with. Just a hint for you.

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Last edited by blznfun; 02-16-2013 at 02:28 PM.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,201
# 7
02-16-2013, 09:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blznfun View Post
Plus the Jem ship has been out for over a year now. If they haven't nerfed it by now, I doubt they will.

Also, reading a Wiki without realizing that anyone can write that stuff and make it sound even more uber or less uber just by the select choice of words they use to write it with. Just a hint for you.
My sole problem with the JH bug ship is that its STO stats are deliberately skewed to serve as a "must-have" power-gamer's ship. The canon JHAS was never as fast nor hard-hitting as the original Defiant, yet the STO version has no such issues. True JHAS only had a single polaron beam array on its nose, not 4 forward + 3 aft weapon hard points and more available armor than the Defiant's total mass. JHAS were the cannon-fodder ships of the Dominion. Had STO's JHAS stats been represented in the actual DS9 series, the Federation and all its allies would have fallen in days instead of winning the Dominion war.

This is an example of Star Trek IP being exploited for sheer, unapologetic profiteering.

EDIT: If Cryptic were serious about portraying the JHAS as accurately as a fleet VA1 ship allows, then stats should be closer to the following:

1) Base turn rate should not be 20 degrees / sec... it should be closer to 17

2) Console layout should be 4 Engineering, 2 Sci, 4 Tac -- reason: the Antiproton sweep used by JHAS to penetrate the Defiant's cloak required advanced sensor abilities that are beyond the current technical level of the Alpha Quadrant. 2 Sci-consoles would more accurately reflect this.

3) JHAS did not have a lot of stamina given that hoards of them were chewed up by the Defiant's quad phasers. As a result, their hull levels should be closer to that of a fleet escort at 33000, not the 34500 that it has now.

The Jem'Hadar attack ship was the very first lottery-ship distribution by Cryptic. As a result, it is understandable that they were unaware of how much more powerful it would be over other escorts, especially when they broke all previous conventions by giving it a 5th tactical console slot. Yes, the JHAS was a learning experience for Cryptic -- this is why no new lockbox ships have been made with 5 tactical console slots since the JHAS.

Last edited by shar487a; 02-16-2013 at 11:09 PM.
Ensign
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 21
# 8
02-16-2013, 11:06 PM
I'm not a hard core pvp'er but so far I haven't seen a jem'hedar attack ship i was worried about,i fly a BOP and easily keep up with them,and havent found anyone who can out turn me in either of my bop builds,ones a full out torp b'rel(breen clusters) others a pure cannon boat.

The b'rel doesnt quite count as it's always cloaked if i'm doing my job right and is more for surprise attacks against larger ships,but the cannon boat isn't level 50 yet so maybe i have just been getting lucky and things will change when i get there,five more levels :>
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 233
# 9
02-17-2013, 03:20 PM
Its not a case if it needs to be nerfed... what I was asking is "WHY" this ship was superior to every other escort in the game.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 223
# 10
02-17-2013, 03:40 PM
What, to you, makes it superior? From what I see you listed previously, it doesn't make it more than any other escort. The only thing that probably makes it the "most desired ship" in-game is the fact it is on par with KDF BOPs for turn rate and has 2 LT universal slots. A few more thousand hull or shield points does not have much of a desired effect as you say. It only says you will survive for maybe a second more.

I will honest though, I like my bug. I have flown other escorts and they just don't compare. Not from a game standpoint, but from my playstyle standpoint. Other escorts just don't fit what I want to do with them. I would probably be in the defiant if it didn't have that stupid 3rd Ensign tac Boff slot. For me who runs all Energy weapons (4 DHC) it makes that slot useless unless you want to run one dual beam bank. On the other hand, if they would bring back "Target sub-system abilities" to cannons, then it would be worth while again.

If there were to ever change that slot to a universal, I would be back in the defiant class ship.

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