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Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,593
# 11
02-17-2013, 02:05 AM
I get round this by simply not allowing Borg on the ship under any circumstances
indeed If one of my Crew were assimilated I would vapourise them as a kindness
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,517
# 12
02-17-2013, 02:27 AM
I wouldn't let a drone or ex drone on board. It would get in the way of my holographic crew.

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JJ. Trek is just as canon and awesome as all other Trek, Get over it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 139
# 13
02-17-2013, 03:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by centersolace View Post
Remember though, the Borg Queen herself violated canon. Originally the Borg were a pure hive mind, the ships, drones, and everything were completely decentralized. Thusly they had no "pecking order". The Borg Queen changed all that of course.
Point conceded, to an extent. The Borg structure was, to my knowledge, never thoroughly explored outside of Starfleet's interpretation of what it saw prior to Voyager's run-in with the Queen, meaning we were never given the whole story, so....yeah.

I love continuity gray areas, and I think Star Trek may hold the record for the most "Wait, WTF just happened?" and "Where did THAT come from?" reactions of any series in history. I have learned to just accept it and move on, because trying to figure it out so it all makes sense hurts my brain.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,388
# 14
02-17-2013, 04:54 AM
A quick point to clarify, is that there are no Borg born to the Collective. All drones are created via assimilation of people. Any 'baby Borg' seen, were simply assimilated babies which were in maturation chambers (possibly the mother was assimilated while pregnant and the unborn child was placed into a maturation chamber so as not to 'waste resources')

Other than that, I agree with your point. Seven and the Borg children did rather disrupt the canon from Hugh, and that is solely down to shoddy writing and Brannon Braga being given carte blanche...

As to the topic question, I have no liberated Borg in my crew. I quite understand Sollvax's position of not even allowing Borg on board, and immediately vaporizing any assimilated crew as a kindness, although I wouldn't go to such an extreme myself. Sure, I can imagine that there would be quite a few liberated Borg in Starfleet, given the amount of interactions with the Borg over the past 50 years (in universe), but as characters, they simply don't interest me to write about, and come across as too Tropey for my tastes, and nothing more than a sloppy excuse to have an 'angsty/troubled' or SuperSmart member of the crew, which can just as easily be achieved through other means...

Historically speaking, Marcus Kane went through the early stages of the assimilation process under lab conditions in 2366 to enable Starfleet Command to get a better understanding of the process, but he was never actually assimilated into the collective, and suffered no ill effects as a result of the process, other than anger toward himself that his scientific curiosity got people killed while he was under the influence of the nanoprobes. Not a story I've fully written yet, but maybe one day... Other than that, I have no plans for any liberated Borg as crew (unless a future LC dictates otherwise)
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,128
# 15
02-17-2013, 02:22 PM
Yeah, Voyager's writing was just...meh.

The one liberated Borg I have is actually not on the crew I am writing stories about for the LC's. However, she is easily my oldest fanfic character, and even pre-dates the existence of Seven of Nine by a few years (wow...I just realized that means I've had that character for as long as you had Marcus!). Over the years, I've revised the events that took place, and her personality, as my maturity and writing skills have grown.

While she happened to be a first-year ensign on the Enterprise during First Contact, where she was assimilated, she wasn't anything "special"--just fortunate in her first assignment. I would've said she was a decent officer but not some kind of shining star. Having been in the Collective for only a few days, her human personality remained intact (though needless to say severely affected by the experience). Physically, however, none of the assimilation process could be reversed because she was one of the first that the Borg experimented with on more invasive assimilation techniques (the forerunner to what you see on STO). Unlike Voyager, though, I didn't come up with any of this extra BS like the idea that she was particularly close to the Queen or anything--no more so than a lab animal is to many scientists, or a person to someone like...well...we're on a Star Trek board, so let's say Crell Moset. She was an experiment with a number on it, as far as the Borg were concerned.

In the revised continuity I've come up with over time, while she was involved in stopping an immediate threat from the Borg that would've followed First Contact, she then took an extended leave of absence from Starfleet due to the severity of what had happened to her. She came back sometime after the end of the Dominion War and pretty much had to start her career over (because there was so little of it to begin with, before her assimilation). So by the time of STO, she's still only a commander.

I did not envision her as SuperSmart (LOL!) like the way Seven was. She does have memories from the Collective, and physical capabilities granted by her cybernetics, but even by the time of STO cannot reliably access them all the way Seven did (something I found hard to believe in Seven). If anything, things tend to be recalled when they are the most unwanted and intrusive, and cannot be recalled when it would be really good to have them. She can access more of her physical/cybernetic abilities by now, but still is either unaware of or subconsciously (or even consciously) repressing some of them.

Where there have been difficulties with ranking up in Starfleet, it's been more often due to people expecting a robot according to the stereotype of Liberated Borg and getting someone who is psychologically far more "normal" than expected--with normal emotions, social skills (albeit shy when away from her crew that knows her), and even the ability to correct junior officers on their improper behavior, when necessary.

(This history and psychological profile is also helpful in-game because it means there is much less in the way of inappropriate dialogue or demeanor that could be assigned to her by a Cryptic or Foundry mission, since she does experience the full range of emotions, has social skills, and can speak colloquially with no trouble.)
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Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,388
# 16
02-17-2013, 02:54 PM
She sounds like a fantastic character, and it's always fun to pre-date a Trek character, isn't it Marcus was originally intended to be a primarily Intelligence-based officer with the same level of engineering skill as Geordi, who would have spent most of his time getting assigned away from his command, to either run black ops, or get chained to a drawing board at the Advanced Starship Design Bureau and told to come up with something In the DS-9 re-launch novels, they introduced the character of Elias Vaughn, who was pretty much everything I'd originally envisaged Marcus doing... I totally get where you're coming from with Seven and her abilities. If I recall, the Doctor said that he'd removed over 80% of the Borg hardware from her body, yet she still seemed to have whatever was required for each episode, and that wore pretty thin pretty fast... It sounds like you've handled your character's situation fantastically Having not played the game, I'm not sure how much further the Borg have taken their assimilation technique, is it even more extreme than what was seen in the episodes where Janeway and co got temporarily assimilated?
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,128
# 17
02-17-2013, 11:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcusdkane View Post
She sounds like a fantastic character, and it's always fun to pre-date a Trek character, isn't it
Yeah, and it kind of added to my disappointment when Seven came along, and I felt like they had failed to follow the logic that (to me) seemed self-evident from "I, Borg" and "Descent."

Quote:
I totally get where you're coming from with Seven and her abilities. If I recall, the Doctor said that he'd removed over 80% of the Borg hardware from her body, yet she still seemed to have whatever was required for each episode, and that wore pretty thin pretty fast...
Yeah...that's what really gave me a problem. I could understand the ocular implant still partially functioning since we know she has an artificial eye and part of the implant is still there--but much beyond that? I don't think so. And you'd especially think the assimilation tubules of all things would've been removed by the Doctor, top priority!

Quote:
It sounds like you've handled your character's situation fantastically Having not played the game, I'm not sure how much further the Borg have taken their assimilation technique, is it even more extreme than what was seen in the episodes where Janeway and co got temporarily assimilated?
Yes, very much so. This YouTube video will give you an idea...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbYCBHdNAMU

My character looks more like a "standard" First Contact/VOY Borg, but on the inside a huge amount of damage, both physical and genetic, was done--to the point where there is simply no restoring her.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM me for more. :-)


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Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,388
# 18
02-18-2013, 01:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gulberat View Post
Yeah, and it kind of added to my disappointment when Seven came along, and I felt like they had failed to follow the logic that (to me) seemed self-evident from "I, Borg" and "Descent."
I can see why, as one would think that a disconnected drone would revert to their original personality. That said, Seven explained that while in the maturation chamber, her neural pathways were re-structured, so it would make sense that she would literally think in a different way than before, but on the flipside of that, one would think that Hugh's brain would have been similarly re-structured, unless, as someone pointed out above, the Collective developed the emotional dampening as a result of what was experienced in I, Borg, and Descent... Perhaps an assimilated Vulcan gave them the clues to technologically repress the emotions...

Quote:
Originally Posted by gulberat View Post
Yeah...that's what really gave me a problem. I could understand the ocular implant still partially functioning since we know she has an artificial eye and part of the implant is still there--but much beyond that? I don't think so. And you'd especially think the assimilation tubules of all things would've been removed by the Doctor, top priority!
Absolutely, made absolutely no sense for those to have been retained. Even though in Raven he said that removed implants had regenerated, it would still make sense that he would have simply started the extraction process again and removed anything unnecessary to her day to day survival...

Quote:
Originally Posted by gulberat View Post
Yes, very much so. This YouTube video will give you an idea...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbYCBHdNAMU

My character looks more like a "standard" First Contact/VOY Borg, but on the inside a huge amount of damage, both physical and genetic, was done--to the point where there is simply no restoring her.
Wow, that is extreme assimilation Although the other drones seem fairly standard to FC/VOY... I take it your character still appears fully assimilated?
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,593
# 19
02-18-2013, 02:38 AM
For super smart crew members I have a couple of aliens (from the same race) who are part of that races "Thinker" caste.
(its a caste based species who function in many respects like Ants)
The Castes

Leader (makes long term plans and decisions)
Thinker (deals with all science and most technical tasks)
Preserver (remembers the races history)
Nurturer (Female caste raises the young and is Highly Revered)
Warrior (does the fighting)
Worker (does the Work)

Thinker caste make Vulcans look unfocused and sloppy
Preserver caste would get on really well with Data

Much better than the Borg
because they are people with personalities
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,388
# 20
02-18-2013, 03:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sollvax View Post
For super smart crew members I have a couple of aliens (from the same race) who are part of that races "Thinker" caste.
(its a caste based species who function in many respects like Ants)
The Castes

Leader (makes long term plans and decisions)
Thinker (deals with all science and most technical tasks)
Preserver (remembers the races history)
Nurturer (Female caste raises the young and is Highly Revered)
Warrior (does the fighting)
Worker (does the Work)

Thinker caste make Vulcans look unfocused and sloppy
Preserver caste would get on really well with Data

Much better than the Borg
because they are people with personalities
I like the sound of this species, the caste system reminds me of the Minbari culture Equally, for super smart, my favorites have got to be the mentats in the Duneverse
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