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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 208
# 31
02-18-2013, 06:21 AM
Originally Posted by gfreeman98 View Post
While the above portrayals of Mr. Roddenberry may seem harsh to some, the fact is it's true. You familiar with the IDIC symbol, along with the whole "infinite diversity in infinite combinations" mantra, first introduced in TOS? It was introduced purely for the merchandising and woven into the scripts.

Quite brilliant, really, since this was long before the "product placement" we have nowadays.
If you think Roddenberry was the first one to do product placement, you really need to look into the history of this form of advertising; even Wikipedia will do. Where do you think the name soap opera comes from?

Originally Posted by emacsheadroom View Post
Gene wrote lyrics to the original series opening titles song just so he could get royalties paid to him every time the song was played.
Roddenberry didn't invent that, either. It was very common (and still is) for creators/producers to write lyrics for a theme song, even if they are never used.

Originally Posted by lucianazeta View Post
I mean, just about every existing holiday is nothing but a marketing event now, same with every major fandom, Transformers, Gundam, DBZ, South Park, Star Trek..

All of it revolves around money now, no matter what the original creators made it for.
Transformers is a merchandise driven franchise. It was created by Hasbro as a half hour commercial to sell their toys to kids.
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 460
# 32
02-18-2013, 06:52 AM
I think people aren't wrong, but harsh in thier presentation.

We live in a Capitalist society, like it or hate it, and it costs money to live, feed ones family, have nice things and stuff.

Doesn't mean he was twirling his mustche and,cackling evilly. Doesn't mean he didn't want to see the world become the paradise, free from Greed and poverity, it means he didn't live in that world.

In some ways Star Trek reminded me of Tommy Douglas' Social Gospel. Tommy preached that a New Jerusalem on earth, what he called paradise, was possible. He then went on to become the greatest Canadian (not just just my opinion) the guy that started universal healthcare amoung countless other wonderful acts.

I'm not Christian, but I do share the belief that Earth could be a Paradise, were vary close to the tech to make it so, we just need the political will and a willingness to slowly let go of Capitalist vision of the world and the idealizing of the rich and being rich as desirable.

We have to let go of this drive to keep up with the Jones, learn to focus inward on personal growth and personal evolution, and helping each other.

One suggestion is too look up Tommy Douglas' Mouseland on youtube if one wishes to know the first step. Its a funny parabe.

Also a nice step would be to stop defining people by thier job, instead defining them by there Passions. That girl at Walmart isn't simply a cashier, maybe she a Ice Skater, or a Volunteer for sick animals, or a painter, a good friend ect...

Gene had the vision, but lacked the ability to take that vision to the Political level.

Right now people are in a scarcity mind set that encourages hording. We need a mentality that encourages shares. Many in the 1% want to encourage the scarcity mentality to manipulate things to protect thier unearned privledged position and endless greed.

An example of Greed getting in the way of a better world is that research for viagra like drugs have no shortage of funding, while funding for Draco, medicine that could possibly cure almost any viral disease, from HIV to Ebola, to the common cold, struggles for funding. Some fear big pharma will use iys money to bury Draco so it never sees the light,of day as a threat to its huge exploitive profits.
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 562
# 33
02-18-2013, 07:01 AM
Originally Posted by lordgyor View Post
An example of Greed getting in the way of a better world is that research for viagra like drugs have no shortage of funding, while funding for Draco, medicine that could possibly cure almost any viral disease, from HIV to Ebola, to the common cold, struggles for funding. Some fear big pharma will use iys money to bury Draco so it never sees the light,of day as a threat to its huge exploitive profits.
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Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,735
# 34
02-18-2013, 07:42 AM
Originally Posted by lordgyor View Post

Gene had the vision, but lacked the ability to take that vision to the Political level.
He lacked the vision to take it to the PERSONAL level.

He wrote lyrics for the TOS theme. These lyrics were never used in the show and were never recorded for any official use (their first recorded performance was by Nichelle Nichols years after the series ended), and almost don't exist outside of sheet music. Except, because of those lyrics, he put himself above the actual composer on the credits and got an equal share of the royalties. It's been mentioned in the thread already, but this is not standard practice - there's only a handful of examples and most of them resulted in lawsuits which were lost.

A bit that nobody else seems to have mentioned: The original contract didn't allow for this to be done. Roddenberry deceived the composer into resigning what he said was a new copy of the same contract, but added the ability for Roddenberry to claim half the royalties on the instrumental performance by composing lyrics, and an additional quarter for any recordings made using different instruments (which he also did - most recordings made other than the original were orchestral, not theramin).

He did the same with a number of scripts and characters, too. He was worst for that during early TNG, when he ruined an attempt to create a persistent B-cast with their own storylines and characters by using script changes to lay claim to the characters involved. So the entire B-cast existed for one episode each, had less than ten lines between them, and the one who got most of those lines and was supposed to be the bridge between the A cast and B cast ended up existing only to spill coffee on Captain Picard.

These are behaviors that are normally considered unacceptable in creative industries, usually leading to lawsuits and the perpetrators frequently never work again. It killed at least one show just this season. That bears repeating: The most merchandised industries in the world, which share a history of tax and investment scams, price fixing, and anticompetitive behavior, generally find the behavior Roddenberry engaged in to make money unacceptable.

This is the sort of thing that lead to DS9 Ferengi. Most people know TNG Ferengi were Roddenberry's hamfisted parody of robber barons. What isn't as well known is that the changes made to them after Roddenberry's death were intended to make them a parody of Roddenberry himself - several laws of acquisition were even made describing things he'd done that drove writers and composers away from TOS and TNG.

It's not just the economic "vision" he didn't believe in. He constantly insisted that humans in Star Trek abandoned all forms of religion in the early 21st Century, but he also constantly fought to push through a script where the crew finds the actual, literal, Judeo-Christian God (and not have him be an alien - literal Second Coming style stuff). He pushed for that throughout TOS, it was the main idea behind Phase 2, he pushed that idea for TMP for years and for each movie after that until he almost got his way for Star Trek V. Ironically it was producers meddling with his work that changed God to Devil, Devil to Vulcan Devil, and Vulcan Devil to generic godlike alien #27.

Roddenberry is the modern Karl Marx. And not from the similarities in their visions of the future, but for the fact that, even though most of their visions could be easily incorporated into a life in contemporary society, both of them actively made themselves the thing that should be considered worst if their vision of the future would come true.

Last edited by hevach; 02-18-2013 at 08:16 AM.
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,267
# 35
02-18-2013, 07:43 AM
Really, everyone wants to live in paradise. That's what greed is.
Exploration suggestions thread - give it a read

BTW, you'd pronounce it 'Cap'n Manks'
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,137
# 36
02-18-2013, 09:05 AM
Originally Posted by lucianazeta View Post
It is not, yet STO is first and foremost, an MMO.

Star Trek is the theme of the MMO, it does not change what an MMO is about.
So....are you saying that Star Trek can never be represented correctly in an mmo.

Like a Murder She Wrote mmo is bound to not be faithful to the ip?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 146
# 37
02-18-2013, 09:54 AM
Murder she wrote mmo?

Sign me up!!!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 152
# 38
02-18-2013, 10:02 AM
Originally Posted by picardtheiii View Post
Hello fellow Captains!!!

I'm curious how everyone thinks Gene Roddenberry would feel about everyone capitalizing on the success of Star Trek for monetary gain.

I remember quite a few references in his shows where the desire for monetary game had been "forgotten" or otherwise "surpassed".

Yet everything about STO is created for the sole purpose of putting wealth in the pockets of the makers.

Comments? Thank you.

This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Perfect World Entertainment Community Rules and Policies . ~syberghost
Star Trek was created for monetary gain in the first place. Do you think Gene Roddenberry decided to create it for free? Newsflash, he didn't. He did it to make money. He probably went to sleep on big piles of cash like Scrooge McDuck. If you think getting rich off of it would be something he was would poopoo that would make him an enormous hypocrite.

I have to ask if this OP is a serious question or just the match for the gasoline.

I say that because its been my experience that diehard-purist-trekbelievers will, as someone said in this thread claim Gene is spinning in his grave". Despite the join date I have, I had a different account when the game launched. I was even in the open beta. Back then I made a comment on how some canon things (that were Gene's ideas) were just plain stupid and/or boring in a storytelling perspective.

One poster told me I didn't deserve to even watch Star Trek. That was the nicest comment. I half expected to see my lawn filled with angry "Gene is the messiah" of Star Trek fans carrying pitchforks and torches.

As others have said Gene was in it for the money. Theres nothing really wrong about that. It doesn't mean he was better or worse than anyone else. He had a good idea that has provided entertainment to millions of people for decades and he got rich out of it. No problem there. But I'll be blunt....TNG and the Treks that came after it did improve once Gene's influence was gone. I won't derail this thread with how the "no money" thing is insultingly stupid, or how the "We work to better ourselves" excuse for it is even more insulting as a reason for people that like a little bit of thought in their science fiction. I'd start a thread on it but I already know what the replies would be.

Last edited by syberghost; 02-18-2013 at 12:53 PM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 176
# 39
02-18-2013, 10:20 AM
I'm a little confused.

At what point were the people behind Star Trek turning away money?

EDIT: Hard to imagine where this idea of a non-profit franchise comes from. I mean say a guy starts a restaurant and people love his food. Would you be outraged to learn he CHARGES for it? What if he BUYS THINGS with the money he charges for his food, would that horrify you?

Last edited by pompouluss; 02-18-2013 at 10:22 AM.
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,223
# 40
02-18-2013, 11:01 AM
I say this with complete love and respect: Gene Roddenberry was an immense carny.

There's pretty much no doubt in my mind he'd be thrilled by it.

"We are smart." - Grebnedlog

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