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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,394
# 31
02-19-2013, 12:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by finious2 View Post
the PVP community control the game and what about us people who do not like pvp i myself don't like pvp, dont care fore it, to many rules you have to follow to pvp.

here is what the pvp community would like to see from you

1. use only 1 weapon.
2. console slots must be empty.
3. no shields should be installed on your ship.
4. no targeting thwe other player let them blast you to little pieces.
5. oh yeah and make sure you thank the QQ'ing pvp'ers for being thier punching bag.

the above rules of engagement are a completely made up but i'm sure if the pvp community could some how figure out how to get STO to make us follow a set of rules like that, they would.

stop crying pvp'ers play the game it is only a game for goodness sake
Question is, if you don't like pvp, why even bother coming into this section of the forum in the first place?

Sargon, i'd be willing to be the subject in the video. I can easily record and post it if needed.
aka NazHuggyBear2

"No, there is no real problem with P2W in STO. Obviously, if you fight against someone with an equal level of skill in the game, better equipment will give you an edge. But usually, it is the skill level that determines the outcome, not the P2W." - Sprinkles
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,690
# 32
02-19-2013, 12:44 PM
I knew the evul Klinguns would have denied a pure and simple fact, which is that their sucking abilities are always OP already with only two drain specialized ships.
Sure, in theory there are countermeasures to avoid getting drained to death, but why in the middle of a vicious battle we Feds have to be forced to do this instead of trying to destroy our historical enemies?
All this KDF crap stacked together is a definitive advantage in combat!
After a fierce battle against the evuls a Fed Captain needs some relax!
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,394
# 33
02-19-2013, 12:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmdrskyfaller View Post
I find it hard to understand what the issue with siphon drones. If you're getting drained in PVP by them its because YOU FAILED TO kit your ship to counter them.

Aoe attacks such as photonic shockwave, fire at will, tractor repulsors will kill them.. even simply SPEED engine setting will allow you to avoid them for them drones be SLOW as heck.

The fact is, people that whine about these drones are simply complaining that they should not be responsible for equipping their ships with a counter to a not so commonly used weapon.

the pathetic thing of it all is these drones take nearly a MINUTE to drain a ship of power in their current nerfed form. For a whole MINUTE these whiners are apparently ignoring the drones set on them until *poop* power out.. /waaaa.
You've not gone up against Tuq Heghta then have you where not even engine batteries work to evasive out. By the way, you need weapon power for FAW to work as a counter.

Also, to permanently run a build just to counter 1 specific setup is in itself stupidity. What about the transphasic builds people are using? What about pure energy builds people are using? What about grav well builds people are using? What about warp plasma / theta builds people are using?
So based on your argument, it would be stupid to even enter the arena because I know for a fact I haven't got enough slots for consoles or points for the skill tree to counter all of that.

Most of the effects of the above can be countered effectively without fully speccing against it, however even with a fully spec'd anti drain build you would be lucky to be partially successful.
aka NazHuggyBear2

"No, there is no real problem with P2W in STO. Obviously, if you fight against someone with an equal level of skill in the game, better equipment will give you an edge. But usually, it is the skill level that determines the outcome, not the P2W." - Sprinkles
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 598
# 34
02-19-2013, 01:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by naz4 View Post
Question is, if you don't like pvp, why even bother coming into this section of the forum in the first place?

Sargon, i'd be willing to be the subject in the video. I can easily record and post it if needed.
Thanks, naz! I will consider you the fed subject\victim. :-)If i can't find a klink to help, i will pull my old voquv out of the junk yard, get a respec and put something together. Thanks again!

@gradstudent1
PvP Boot Camp Project Leader Emeritus
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,495
# 35
02-19-2013, 01:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by devorasx View Post
What brings more comedy into the picture is that no serious KDF player will EVER run a ship without plasmonic leech cause it benefits so much. Aceton assis pherhaps not so much, but its still such a popular choice.

It becomes somewhat sad when 1-2 uni consoles becomes a MUST in any ship to actually work properly. It just stinks bad game design when such a thing happens in the first place.
To be fair I usually only run Plas Leech Vs other KDF players, and I'm not the only one like this. Also, the OP of Plas Leech isn't the drain it's the gain.

I don't run Aceton myself and I've never noticed its impact when flying against it.

Regarding drones I'm mixed b/c if it was a Boff ability I don't think I mind it like I mind it coming from pets. Most players I know how use them are also using Engergy Weapon procs and Boff abilities and Doffs. So, it's not like the pets are doing all the work. But, again I wish it came more from the Boff abilities than anything else.

Has anyone tested stacked Human Boffs w/high power insulators (150+) against these?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 145
# 36
02-19-2013, 02:13 PM
I run a 245 flow capacitor Kar'fi for over a year,


I know Drain, People have said Zeadonouse has suck over 300 power in one pass.

I can tell you over the months people have been spec better to counter but there is a huge learning gap on how to counter it in pvp.

My build is 2 siphon with disable doff + interceptor+Targetshields3+ phased/polaron+ leach+ assimilators, lets just say I drain alot. Each clearable with Hazard Emitters. Yes HE clear most drains. BORG SET CLEARS most drain

If you’re a escort spec all for dps, yes you will get drain and 90%/time die but I’ve seen tact with bug spike through my EptS + RSF= shield cap (eng capt). Even with heavy weapon drain.

But most pvp cruiser players can handle this , science player to with ease yes they cant dps but it far better to put drains on escort to remove there dps from a match. Drain assist but a good healer can heal a player through or tank it out.

Drain is in a far more balance state right now. Science power shut down dps, dps cant take down other teams healers. Dps Healer keeps dps alive with HE. I see this all the time when I run into premades in the ques.

Drain is great 1v1 poor spec people.
Can candle even the best 1v1 with bugs
Eliminated in full premade by HE
A mechanic with a fully spec way to res against (Insulators)
Lets teach not nerf

A reason Why Eng captain are now good in kdf que Nadion Inversion 59% res to POWER DRAIN
Nova Core
ParadiseKiller

House of Beautiful Orions
Zeadonouse
ToLate

Last edited by paradise1killer; 02-19-2013 at 02:26 PM.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 269
# 37
02-19-2013, 02:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gradstudent1 View Post
I am glad that Naz has these on his PvP Problems thread. I am starting this new thread because I think that the developers need to know that siphons remain a problem. Here is a brief exchange recorded in Naz's thread between Borticus (the one writing the "Status") and a player:

12. Item: Siphon Drone
Issue: Leaves target completely drained of all energy and totally defenceless
Status: Are these complaints based on recent play experience? The functionality of Siphon Drones' drain was drastically altered a few months ago
Yes it is - Based on very recent Klingon queue experience

This exchange suggests to me that the developers think that the recent adjustment to siphon drones was successful and made drones no longer an issue. I would say that it was helpful but not quite successful. For this reason, I am opening up a new thread, to see if there are others who can provide experiential and perhaps numerical/technical data to show either (1) that siphon drones are working at acceptable levels or (2) that they are still a major problem in pvp environments. Whatever the case may be, now that we are a few months out from the recent adjustment to siphon drones, I imagine the devs would appreciate some kind of longer-term evaluation of their current impact on pvp.

Thanks everyone .
Yes, they are a problem. They were altered so they'd have a hard cap and unlike other drains I have a feeling that resists aren't working properly against Siphons Drones either.

I had a buddy take a few screencaps against me a few weeks ago while I was using the rare version of the Siphon Drones. He had Power Insulators maxed and at the lowest his power systems sank were 17 to all systems so I'm assuming that is the hard cap. The Siphon Drones were the only drains that I was using against him too. Considering how quickly you can spit these things out with DOffs and full Aux that makes the drain pretty much continuous with no real counter. You can't defend against that in my honest opinion.

Screenshot: http://files.enjin.com.s3.amazonaws....al/1033939.jpg

I fly a Vo'quv on my KDF main and I refuse to use these things because I do personally agree that these pets are a broken mechanic within the game. Thanks for bringing up this subject. I've often thought these need to be addressed.

Last edited by rooster75; 02-19-2013 at 03:02 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,015
# 38
02-19-2013, 02:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
interceptors though, they are like drones with APO on all the time, firing chrono torps and draining energy from 2 subsystems about half as well as drones. overall, much harder to deal with and impossible to out run. especially if they chrono proc you. and runabouts? they have twice the HP that would be reasonable. in the time it takes you to turret shot them to death, thier TB2 will have already held you its full duration. those should really be categorized as large carrier frigate pets.
Shhhh....

Nothing to see here folks, ignore the crazy man ranting about interceptors, ha ha, yes, moving right along.

Haven't tested siphons since the change, but right before the change I was surprised by claims of what it didn't stack with. See that was kind of the problem, you didn't need to stack drains, just keep the target from outrunning them while you poop them out faster than they can cycle AoE. Part of my personal griping to get the other pets on the HEC is because siphons clear the queues so hard I want other options for CC klink-side. Anybody who can take vids want to let me suck on them and then let everybody watch?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 137
# 39
02-19-2013, 05:21 PM
A fleet mate and I have been playing with Vampire (drain) and vampire slayer builds, but not using carriers, thus no siphon drones. We've determined that, so far, Fed vamps (non-carrier ships) will NEVER be as efficient as Klink vamps. The lack of Plasmonic Leech, Aceton Assimulators and, to the topic of the thread, Siphon Drones means Feds cannot get the same level of power.

In terms of slayers, however, the issue really is that the counters to drain abilities are wholly lacking. Hazard Emitters can clear away an Energy Siphon, but the cooldown on it is much longer than the Siphon, so it's not a matter of if, but WHEN the Siphon will effect the ship. And if the vamp has any sense, they'll have at least 2 Siphons, and even with 2 Hazard Emitters, countering it is rough, if not impossible.

Acetons are always a pain for Feds, whether the Klink is a vamp or not. Not only does it serve as a pet magnet (NEVER use photonic fleet around them, you will hate yourself for it), but since it can only be killed with torps (or a cutting beam), killing one and moving on means dealing with the drain becomes harder. My personal thought is that maybe Acetons should have their health halved so a single torp spread (2) can kill them.

And then there's Plasmonic Leech which has NO counter, aside from not being shot at. Only Nadion Inversion, an Engineer only power, can counter it at all, and the cooldown on that makes it unusable in most situations. And I'm not even sure if it does do any good.

The only real counter to a vamp is numbers. Vamps really are one target ships, they can't affect everything on the field aside from using Acetons. But the power drain boots shields, so you have to burn through the shields to kill them. At the same time, once you get through the shields, vamps tend not to have many hull heals, and they will die.

Typically in my one on one fights, vamp vs vamp slayer, usually results in a stalemate, with the slayer not able to clear the shields of the vamp, but the vamp not able to do the same. But once the cooldowns line up, the vamp will win most of the time. There's only so much a slayer can do.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,495
# 40
02-19-2013, 08:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by theeishtmo View Post
A fleet mate and I have been playing with Vampire (drain) and vampire slayer builds, but not using carriers, thus no siphon drones. We've determined that, so far, Fed vamps (non-carrier ships) will NEVER be as efficient as Klink vamps. The lack of Plasmonic Leech, Aceton Assimulators and, to the topic of the thread, Siphon Drones means Feds cannot get the same level of power.

In terms of slayers, however, the issue really is that the counters to drain abilities are wholly lacking. Hazard Emitters can clear away an Energy Siphon, but the cooldown on it is much longer than the Siphon, so it's not a matter of if, but WHEN the Siphon will effect the ship. And if the vamp has any sense, they'll have at least 2 Siphons, and even with 2 Hazard Emitters, countering it is rough, if not impossible.

Acetons are always a pain for Feds, whether the Klink is a vamp or not. Not only does it serve as a pet magnet (NEVER use photonic fleet around them, you will hate yourself for it), but since it can only be killed with torps (or a cutting beam), killing one and moving on means dealing with the drain becomes harder. My personal thought is that maybe Acetons should have their health halved so a single torp spread (2) can kill them.

And then there's Plasmonic Leech which has NO counter, aside from not being shot at. Only Nadion Inversion, an Engineer only power, can counter it at all, and the cooldown on that makes it unusable in most situations. And I'm not even sure if it does do any good.

The only real counter to a vamp is numbers. Vamps really are one target ships, they can't affect everything on the field aside from using Acetons. But the power drain boots shields, so you have to burn through the shields to kill them. At the same time, once you get through the shields, vamps tend not to have many hull heals, and they will die.

Typically in my one on one fights, vamp vs vamp slayer, usually results in a stalemate, with the slayer not able to clear the shields of the vamp, but the vamp not able to do the same. But once the cooldowns line up, the vamp will win most of the time. There's only so much a slayer can do.
PI and Maco Shields counter the Plas Leech drain, though not the drain..

PI neuters ES drain, though not the gain. Maco can help vs this, as can other gains eg, eptx, aux2batt, batteries, your own ES, etc.

Move away from the Aceton Assimilators, or TBR them. Seriously though, I never even notice these in KvK.
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