Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 137
# 1 PvP Queue Match Review
02-22-2013, 10:26 PM
With the addition of Fleet Marks, I spent quite a bit more time doing the PvP wrappers, and I have some reviews for the match types, from best to worst and brief recommendations to make them better. Please feel free to comment.

1. Space Arena - It's space PvP. Nothing great about it (get the same fights in Kerrat), but nothing terrible. The only downsides include few maps (3) and the fact that most fights, due to the nature of the game, tend to travel upwards. Those all that beautiful scenery on the map, the rocks and station pieces you're meant to fly around, tend to end up about 50 kilometers below the fighting and have no impact at all. Might as well be empty space.

Recommendation: More, vertical oriented maps. Or perhaps something "indoors," like the Vault perhaps. . .

2. Ground Assault - Once I learned what you're SUPPOSED to do on this map, it became kind of fun. It's a reverse capture the flag, where the flag (a virus) is supposed to be moved to an enemy console. Creative idea. Poor execution for the most part, as I didn't understand what was going on until I read the wiki post about it. Only ONE map, but at least it feels interesting and varied. Like all the PvP maps, it lacks a secure spawn point, but it feels less of an issue here as there are plenty of turrets to do the defending. Also, I think it may be a bit bugged as I've noticed when my team clearly lost, the game acted as if we had one, very strange.

Recommendation: More maps, and a time hold so people can read a quick blurb about what they're supposed to be doing, or something to guide them through the map. Also, why is the virus dispenser so far from the spawn? What's the point of that?

3. Ground Arena - The maps are an awful twisted mess of hallways that are so confusing as to disorient new and seasoned players alike. It really, REALLY doesn't help that there is no set spawn point of any kind. I once died, respawned, and had an enemy respawn RIGHT BEHIND ME. I then killed him, which I'm sure wasn't fun for him as it wasn't fun for me. With no set or secure spawns, it's hard to keep groups together, form battlelines, or organize anything. People attempting to learn ground going in here will be turned off of it almost instantly because it doesn't allow for any kind of teamwork, and it becomes fairly easy for one side to steamroll the other if they get luck first. Not fun at all.

Recommendation: Destroy all these old maps, build new ones with secure and set spawn points, and make it more an ARENA rather than a pointless confusing death trap. Or maybe turn it into a pure deathmatch style map, then this kind of odd design would work really well.

4. Space Capture and Hold - I hate Capture and Hold. Hate, hate, hate, hate, HATE. I think it breaks so many rules of good PvP design that it should framed and placed on the wall as a warning for the next 10 generations of PvP designers of how awful things can be. The worst part is it does EVERYTHING the other 3 types do, but it's amplified to the point of insanity. Let's break it down

A.) No secure spawn. Oh, it's a set spawn, that's great, but without it being secure, that just means a good set of players can camp the spawn and kill anyone who appears. Those turrets are laughable as a defense for the spawn point, and the fact that the spawns are SHOCKINGLY close to one another makes it even more ridiculous.

B.) No indicators of time left to capture. Instead we get a doofy little symbol that's supposed to act as an indicator, but without any way to know how LONG it takes to capture, which can vary thanks to some lag issues (and that's even pointed out in the wiki!), it's hard to plan when to move or not. Also doesn't help that there's no easy way to gauge how close you need to be to being the capture process, so unless you're right on top of that doofy symbol, you don't know if you're capturing at all.

C.) Uninteresting map. Oh it's full of STUFF, but it feels like someone threw together vastly different terrains for this random map. It's an uninspired mishmash of ideas. I could see any ONE of these terrain points being built into an entire map, but throwing them all together makes it feel like it was cut and pasted from several, more interesting maps.

D.) All points are open to capture. That means someone can fly behind enemy lines, and take points from the back field. Okay, that could be interesting, except again, no idea how LONG it takes, so some of those guys can be slaughtered, but also no way to know, in the thick of a fight, if a point is being taken at all. Which leads to my last, major issue:

E.) It can go on FOREVER. Seriously, I've had one of these matches take an HOUR to finish. That's completely unacceptable and a waste of my time and energy. The "back and forth" drama of the match doesn't work if it can't even get going, with neither side ever really TAKING a point, and holding it means nothing if someone else can swoop in and snatch it at the last second. Eventually both sides will tire and one or two players will go through, capture the points, and end the madness and tedium.

Recommendations - Leave A-D exactly as they are, if you must, but for God's sake, give this match a timer. 15 minutes, whoever is ahead after that, wins. Otherwise, go play Team Fortress 2 and see how they do their control point maps, AND COPY THEM. I will never, EVER play another Capture and Hold again until this mess is sorted out.

Final Recommendations - Again, go play Team Fortress 2 and get some new ideas. These 4 match types are, well, lame in all. Even the best one, Space Arena, isn't all that great. Variety in match types, multiple maps (perhaps even the same map in different matches) and a better queuing system (one that doesn't randomly decided that the minimum 4 player match now requires a minimum of 8) could help make queuing for matches far less annoying than they are now, and generally make PvP more interesting and fun.

I would mention Kerrat here, but it's not a match, but it is buggy as hell. Might be worth a general review in the future, but it's fine, and fun in it's own way.
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 469
# 2
02-22-2013, 11:30 PM
I love Capture and Hold but I agree that can be made some improvements.
Your points :
A.) No secure spawn -I agree that spawn point can be camped if you want to do that
B.) No indicators of time left to capture.Yes it would help to exist such things
C.) Uninteresting map.I dont agree.You should think how some of the map points can be used in C&H
D.) All points are open to capture.Yes one of the best features of this map in my opinion
E.) It can go on FOREVER.Yes one of the second best features of this map in my opinion

C&H map is brilliant in my opinion.PVP here is very close to a chess play,and similar to a chess play it can take more than an hour to finish.Leave it as it is otherwise it wouldn't be so interesting.
For who wants fast PVP maps there is alwasy the arena where things settle in 90% of case very fast.
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 461
# 3
02-23-2013, 02:21 AM
There is a ground warzone, too (Otha, near Drozana Station.) Not very populated most of the time, as ground mk11s tend not to be worth much, although you can do the mission pretty fast and make a decent bit of ec if you get lucky and score a good gun or a kit. It's a pretty zone, and not glitchy like Kerrat, but aside from that it's nothing special, and has plenty of annoyances of its own - terrain geometry that doesn't match up to the visible geometry being foremost among them.
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 585
# 4
02-23-2013, 04:36 AM
I really, really, really wish Cap'n'Hold was like Unreal Tournament's "Domination" game type.

Touch a point, it's instantly captured and gives you 1 point per second. Get a kill 1 point. In this case it'd be -1 to the other team's 1200 or so points. Still, it was frantic, fast paced, and kept everyone on the move.
If you feel Keel'el's effect is well designed, please, for your own safety, be very careful around shallow pools of water.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,845
# 5
02-23-2013, 05:00 AM
Aww, man. Now you have me pining for a revival of old school FPS action.

But hell yeah, that would be an awesome mode. I absolutely loathe doing CnH because of how you get punished for trying to play the objectives with that nonsense waiting.
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 585
# 6
02-23-2013, 05:11 AM
Originally Posted by snoge00f View Post
Aww, man. Now you have me pining for a revival of old school FPS action.

But hell yeah, that would be an awesome mode. I absolutely loathe doing CnH because of how you get punished for trying to play the objectives with that nonsense waiting.
Half the time the scoring system never seems to make sense either. Oh, you're team has two points, you've uncapped all the others, and it's you're score that's going down... wait what?

How in the hell does that make any sense?

It doesn't read right mid battle, it actively punishes you for trying to aggressively uncap enemy points while capping your own, and to add insult to injury, even if you do slip behind enemy lines not even a little progress is made for your trouble. Throw in the "Yo dog, I'mma let you cap but first I've gotta order a pizza" control-changing system and it just becomes horrid.

Hell, imagine if you had to take, cap, and connect your base to the enemy's so you could destroy it... y'know, like UT2k4's Onslaught mode. I mean, really, you're in 3D space, you could have a field day with different map configurations.
If you feel Keel'el's effect is well designed, please, for your own safety, be very careful around shallow pools of water.

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