Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,223
# 31
02-28-2013, 02:02 PM
Ocampans are an "adult" by the time they turn 1 and have short lifespans. In theory without a magical medical treatment they wouldn't be able to become old enough to gain a high rank.
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Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 11,892
# 32
02-28-2013, 05:29 PM
yeah, 2-3 makes sense, 1 does not.

Either way, an Ocampan can read a textbook once, then remember it almost flawlessly. That sort of ability would make half of the Starflet academy pretty quick and easy. That and it's entirely possible the Federation has figured out how to extend Ocampan lifespans.
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 786
# 33
03-01-2013, 10:37 AM
Hmm, people seem to be missing the point here about Ocampan learning ability.
Well, markhawkman picked up on it, so Gold Star and cookie for them!

So I'll restate it and hope it sinks in.

You can't apply a normal learning curve to Ocampans because they learn quite quickly compared to species with a longer lifespan.

If they were to attend an Academy course and keep pace with the slower students, it would essentially be like learning in slow motion.

Sortof like, I've read the course material in one month, yet you're going to make me wait 4 years to do the tests because the other students aren't that fast?

Starfleet Academy would have to be massively inept not to make special allowances for a species that could learn that fast.

I assume when Ocampans graduate, their progression through the ranks of Starfleet is equally rapid.

Because they're learning faster, they're able to take on duties and responsibilities much sooner then a normal Starfleet officer would be.

I would not be surprised that an Ocampan becomes a Ship's Doctor after 2 years or a first officer after 3 if they demonstrate an ability to do the job on par with the other candidates for the position.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,223
# 34
03-01-2013, 11:35 AM
Yeah... there's sort of a gaping hole in that logic even by Star Trek standards.

Mainly, if that's how things worked, Data would have made captain in record time.

It doesn't work that way. Never has.
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 786
# 35
03-01-2013, 03:21 PM
Yeah, that doesn't help your case.

Data doesn't age, so he can take his time working up the ranks.
If he wanted to spend 200 years working his way up to Captain, he could.
Also, due to his limitations of understanding organic psyche and emotions, Data is effectively handicapped in his mental development (or he was before he got his emotion chip).
Which is probably why he was never considered seriously for the Command Program, a good Captain needs those skills.

Ocampans on the other hand, they are organic species, not androids.
Besides, like I keep saying, it's natural for their species to progress this fast.
If we see it from their perspective, other species are taking too long to learn knowledge.
Who are we to say to an Ocampan "you're getting too smart too fast, slow it down or get kicked out of the Academy/Starfleet".

It wouldn't be exactly fair to have an Ocampan sitting in a classroom doing first year tests when they're already at a level where they can pass the fourth year tests, go out into the galaxy and be a valuable member of Starfleet.

Besides, there is a real world equivalent.
Certain genius inviduals have skipped grades because they learned faster then anyone else.
Example, you could have a child prodigy at age 12 in high school because they have to be taught with those who are on their intellectual level.
Not teaching them at the level they are on just because they're young only causes problems for them because they get frustrated with how simple it is and desire more challenging tasks.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 11,892
# 36
03-01-2013, 06:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsurutafan01 View Post
Yeah... there's sort of a gaping hole in that logic even by Star Trek standards.

Mainly, if that's how things worked, Data would have made captain in record time.

It doesn't work that way. Never has.
Actually...
Data was admitted to the Academy in 2344.
He graduated in 2348, was assigned to Trieste as an Ensign for 3 years, then a Lieutenant for 12.
He was assigned to the Enterprise-D as a LtCom in 2364.
In 2379, Riker was finally leaving the Ent-D to Captain the Titan. Data was set to replace him as XO.

So... it took him 35 years to go from Academy recruit to XO.

Let's compare that with Riker. Riker entered the Academy in 2353. He was promoted to Commander sometime before 2364. He was offered a Captaincy several times prior to accepting his position on the Titan in 2379. The first was the Drake in 2364.

So.... Data actually had a SLOW career in Starfleet by comparison. An Ocampan who progressed as fast as Riker might make Captain before the age of 12.
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Rihannsu
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,286
# 37
03-01-2013, 08:25 PM
Data, Riker, Picard and Kirk spend 4 years at Starfleet Academy, that seems to be the usual course ... 4 years.

Accelerated courses might exist but not because of the idiocy that is Voyager.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 786
# 38
03-01-2013, 11:13 PM
4 years Human time roughly equates to 50 years Ocampan time.

See the error there?

Who'd want to spend 50 years as an college student?

They'd have to be taught at the pace to which they were accustomed.

Perhaps even to the point of having Ocampan specific classes, taught by Ocampan instructors.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,286
# 39
03-02-2013, 07:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tilarta View Post
4 years Human time roughly equates to 50 years Ocampan time.
This is irrelevant and absurd.

A Saturn year is 29.7 Earth years, the entire thing is BS and idiocy from people that not satisfied into making crap from the start had to pile up even more crap until we had a mountain of crap.

The Ocampa are another absurd Sci-Fic race that, thankfully are not even relevant.

Quote:
See the error there?
I see the error assuming physical maturity equaling mental maturity and no, the Mary Sue bull**** "genius" is also crap, someone that only have the life experiences of a year is certainly not equal to someone that have the life experiences of 18 years-

Quote:
Who'd want to spend 50 years as an college student?
SPRING BREAK!

Quote:
They'd have to be taught at the pace to which they were accustomed.
Yes, lets put people with the maturity of a toddler in charge of a Starship, what can possible go wrong ...

Quote:
Perhaps even to the point of having Ocampan specific classes, taught by Ocampan instructors.
They are all dead due to 0 population growth and of lacking some all powerful entity to take of then.

When the Caretaker died, they all died because for 500 generations they were taken care off, adding zero population growth and we have the hilarity of a species that due to cannot into genetics that could not sustain itself or not ending as inbreed with little genetic variance due to all the twins required to maintain current population.

At least I can ignore the idiocy that is the Andorian 4 genders since its conflicted with other material and come from a novel, its harder with the Ocampa but since they come from the idiocy that is Voyager I can file it along with Threshold as "failure to understand even basic biology".
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,962
# 40
03-02-2013, 07:42 AM
If STO deletes your Ocampan character 9 years after the initial creation date, then sure! I'm all for it!
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