Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 840
# 41
03-02-2013, 12:11 PM
I guess it's time for some point assassination.

Quote:
Originally Posted by f2pdrakron View Post
I see the error assuming physical maturity equaling mental maturity.
Someone that only have the life experiences of a year is certainly not equal to someone that have the life experiences of 18 years.
Like I keep saying, the Ocampans learn fast.
What makes you think this only applies to intellectual knowledge?
They can gain life experience at the same rate, by making mistakes and correcting them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by f2pdrakron View Post
Yes, lets put people with the maturity of a toddler in charge of a Starship, what can possible go wrong?
If that was true, Kes barely being a year old should have been screaming like a baby every minute of the show.
But for an Ocampan one year is roughly equivalent to 18-20 human years.
An 3 year old Ocampan (roughly equivalent to 30 human years) would be mature enough to command a Starship.
It's hard to make proper baseline comparisons since Ocampans don't get the physical signs of aging until they hit 5 years, a quirk of their biology.

Quote:
Originally Posted by f2pdrakron View Post
They are all dead due to 0 population growth.
Didn't I explain this too?
Ocampans have a high birth rate, their population growth is 200-300% percent per year, for a duration of up to 4 years for a single female.

Quote:
Originally Posted by f2pdrakron View Post
They all died because for 500 generations zero population growth and we have the hilarity of a species that due to cannot into genetics that could not sustain itself or not ending as inbreed with little genetic variance due to all the twins required to maintain current population.
Seriously?
How many Ocampans do you think there are?
We only see a few and only during the pilot episode.
There could be a lot more then we are shown.
Certainly enough to be a genetically viable population.

The mistake you keep making and should stop is applying standard time measurement and physical/mental development to a species who marks time/growth in a different way.


You want to know the correct solution?
If you hate Ocampans so much, nobody is forcing you to make one.

But for those of us who are interested in doing so, we're going to!


Final word on the matter, Ocampans are part of STO lore now and no matter how much you wish otherwise, they're here to stay!


And no, I don't think STO could get away with deleting the character after 9 years.
First of all, ingame time doesn't equal realworld time.
And can you imagine how annoyed a player would be if they maxed an Ocampan's Reputation, got all the set gear and a bunch of purple weapons, rare/very rare doffs etc only have all that deleted because of some pointless rule about lifespan which may not even apply anymore!

Last edited by tilarta; 03-02-2013 at 04:31 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 119
# 42
03-02-2013, 01:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by odyssey47 View Post
I always found it a little unsettling that Neelix was banging a one-year-old.

Anyways, I'm curious as to the OP's reasoning for finding the Ocampans so interesting, at least compared to the other choices in the game. Not putting down your opinion, just curious.
I was always more concerned she was letting him, he looked like he was the result of a very shallow gene pool and a rat.
He was also incredibly annoying, I'm still disappointed I didn't get to see him air locked.
_________________________________________
Concessimus etiam omnibus liberis hominibus regni nostri, et dedit pro nobis et heredibus nostris in perpetuum, quibus libertates subscriptas, habendas et tenendas eis et heredibus suis de nobis et heredibus nostris in perpetuum.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,587
# 43
03-02-2013, 06:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tilarta View Post
I guess it's time for some point assassination.
Yes, lets ....


Quote:
Like I keep saying, the Ocampans learn fast.
What makes you think this only applies to intellectual knowledge?
They can gain life experience at the same rate, by making mistakes and correcting them.
Learning does not mean maturity, there are many ways to hold back manturity and guess what the Caretaker was doing?

Quote:
If that was true, Kes barely being a year old should have been screaming like a baby every minute of the show .
How about we not using Kes as a example because you know, the whole "what a Goddess am I" when she left and all that.

Quote:
But for an Ocampan one year is roughly equivalent to 18-20 human years.
This is bull, genetic you might grow that much but you are saying a fruit fly is as capable as a human being.

Lifespan means little in terms of maturity, it just means how long something lives before it dies ... there is nothing that requires to reach any kind of mental maturity because its not needed and also trying to make such silly and ABSURD equivalences is ... well, absurd and why?

Because humans living as long as we do right now is a recent event, back in the Iron Age the life expectation was 26 years old ... THIS is why I say its absurd and absurd and absurd because the writers simply fail so hard at getting ANYTHING right its just a comedy, the Ocampa as a race arew a JOKE because the writers dont event get basic biology.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_ex...tion_over_time

Quote:
An 3 year old Ocampan (roughly equivalent to 30 human years) would be mature enough to command a Starship.
And so a 3 years old human as I just proven using the exact same "logic" as the one applied to the Ocampa.

Quote:
It's hard to make proper baseline comparisons since Ocampans don't get the physical signs of aging until they hit 5 years, a quirk of their biology.
OK so if you ARE saying there are physical signs of aging until they hit 5 then ... oh, who also shows physical signs of aging like oh voice changing, the development of secondary sex characteristics ... there is a name for that ... let me think ...

Puberty!

Oh humans start THAT at ages 10-12 so that just means Ocampans live oh about just HALF of humans if we try to apply any kind of logic.

Also nice torpedoing your own point, a 3 years old Ocampa would be a 6-7 years old human.


Quote:
Didn't I explain this too?
Ocampans have a high birth rate, their population growth is 200-300% percent per year, for a duration of up to 4 years for a single female.
Too bad the show downright says NOPE.

They give birth ONCE, this was made a plot point (again, the writers are idiots and fail basic biology so hard) and you are now making stuff up.

As written by that episode and so never disproved (and they never talked about that again) they give birth ONCE, this means ZERO POPULATION GROWTH ... in fact Memory Alpha even mentions this was so absurd one of the novel writers had to come up with the notion they give birth to twins and triplets because otherwise THEY WOULD BE LONG DEAD and still THAT opens unwanted questions (Inbreeding yo!) but simply put, there is no way to escape this outside saying "the whole giving birth only once in their life? NEVER HAPPENED" since ... they did it, it was stupid and another basic biology fail but its there and you cannot escape it.

Quote:
Seriously?
How many Ocampans do you think there are?
We only see a few and only during the pilot episode.
There could be a lot more then we are shown.
Certainly enough to be a genetically viable population.
Oh? and were they come from in the first place?

You playing game with "oh but there could be ...." well could is exactly that, something you are trying to justify the fact what we see does not work when logic is applied and following that I could say the Ocampa female COULD eat the Ocampa male after reproduction.

You are trying to defend what cannot be defended, just because something COULD be does not mean it is, especially when NO EFFORT was made for the could.

Quote:
The mistake you keep making and should stop is applying standard time measurement and physical/mental development to a species who marks time/growth in a different way.
No I am not, I am applying mostly know science against bull**** magical "sci-fic" species.

You know that about life expectation? thats correct but does not mean when reaching 28 people just croaked, that is a average because people can live longer or shorter depending on several factors, we live so long know because of advances on medicine that just makes the Ocampa "nine years" a even bigger bull**** because they are being compared with VOY humans that lived well passed centuries DUE to advances in medicine.

Yet they live LESS that 1/10 of a human ... why? if we consider the Caretaker did give then equivalent medical technology we are talking when he arrived they were in what stage? Early 20th Century ... lets see now ... human life expectant was 31 years old ... that would mean they would live oh about 2-3 years old before they died, unless you are going to claim they had no illness, no virus, no ANYTHING because ... ah, what the hell.

The more I poke the more holes I see ... I dont want to poke more at it because its just depressive, at least with other races they give then some centuries so get breathing room ... heck even the Xindi were better thought out, heck a Xindi-Insectoid managed to live longer that a Ocampa, even the Jem'Hadar that were BIO-ENGINEERED lived LONGER (as long they managed to survive) and they FAR more screwed up that the Ocampa.

Again, MAGICAL BULL**** RACE!

Quote:
You want to know the correct solution?
If you hate Ocampans so much, nobody is forcing you to make one.
This is a non-argument, I could say ...

"You want to know the correct solution?
If you hate eating human flesh so much, nobody is forcing you to eat it."

Quote:
But for those of us who are interested in doing so, we're going to!
The difference is this.

I am calling then what they are, NOT the wild fantasies you people seem to have about them ... I am pointing is a terrible designed race that makes no sense and if I poke at it is even worst because of how terrible bad it is.

Yet you people are making then a Mary Sue race and making stuff up about the ... this is the Ocampa:

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Ocampa

Quote:
Final word on the matter, Ocampans are part of STO lore now and no matter how much you wish otherwise, they're here to stay!
When you have a Cryptic tag and a golden name you can say that ...


Quote:
And no, I don't think STO could get away with deleting the character after 9 years.
First of all, ingame time doesn't equal realworld time.
And can you imagine how annoyed a player would be if they maxed an Ocampan's Reputation, got all the set gear and a bunch of purple weapons, rare/very rare doffs etc only have all that deleted because of some pointless rule about lifespan which may not even apply anymore!
Oh this is just precious ... so do tell how their lifespan "may not even apply anymore", I suppose the Caretaker simply let then die giving then no medical care, sure I know about Suspiria little group that lived up to 20 but hey I am not the elephant on the china shop ...

And I guess I am done ... yet I say this, you cannot really defend this absurd race anymore that you can defend the path of human evolution is we becoming lizards.
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