Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,567
# 1 More escort suggestions...
02-21-2013, 10:27 PM
There have been way too many threads of late that have had nerf after nerf suggestion for escorts. And that's all they've been, flat out nerf suggestions. I have been guilty of this too.

After much thought about the suggestions/accusations/name calling I decided to look at this from a different angle. I sat down and watched some DS9 episodes.

DS9 has always been my fave Trek series. Sure, it started a little slow but (in my opinion) it had the best interpersonal relationships, the best stories and by far the best space battles.

I love the Defiant, I love how it moves, I love how it looks and I love the punishment it dishes out. It's a ship that doesn't just have teeth, it has multiple sets of teeth waiting to tear you to pieces. I also notice that it doesn't yo-yo like most of the escorts in STO do.

I accept that the yo-yo is one of the most effective tactics in this game, but it's just not Trek. If the series are anything to go by, escorts move fast, they dodge incoming fire and they lay down punishing strafing runs. How would you emulate that tactic in STO, though?

After much thought, here is my solution. Please read the ENTIRE solution before replying!

Firstly, an escort should NOT be able to tank. Tanking is the realm of the cruiser and nobody should come close to that. Therefore an escort should have way less shields and less hull. A blanket reduction is shields and is not fair, though. To balance this, the defense of an escort moving at high speeds should be massive. It may not be able to take too many hits but just as many shots should be missing it as hitting it. (It makes no sense for escorts to be hit as many times as a cruiser. It's counterintuitive. Cruisers move slower and are larger targets.)

The decrease in shields and hull and increase in defense should be carefully done so as to ensure that the average escort moving at top speed would last just as long as they would under the current system. What purpose would this serve? To stop yo-yo tactics. In order to survive the escort would need to keep moving. This would result in brand new tactics evolving. No longer would Emergency Power to Shields be the flavour of the day for escorts; Emergency Power to Engines would be the escorts magic power, pushing their defense to incredible limits. Players would see that a slow escort is a dead escort.

Not being able to yo-yo would result in a vast drop in offensive power. Escorts would no longer have their nose permanently facing their target. That's not fair to the escorts. To balance this, escorts would need a rather large increase in damage. Their strafing runs should bring tears to the eyes of their opponents.

How to make this reasonable. Well, I would propose that the narrower the firing arc, the greater the damage boost. Turrets get no boost, beams get a little, cannons get a little more, dual beams get lots but DCs and DHCs get nasty. The game becomes that of moving fast and setting up strafing runs. Just like the Defiant did on so many occasions.

I know that a lot of people are not going to like this and I know that I'll probably get called names but I feel that escorts shouldn't be depending on shields and shield management for survival as much as they should be depending on evasiveness. Like the Defiant battling the Dominion, escorts should be zipping through space, shot after shot missing them whilst raining hellfire and brimstone on those that they lock their sights on.

Oh, how impressive a sight that would be!! I can see that other changes may be needed to cruisers and science ships to allow them to survive the brutal alpha strikes that the above system would allow for, but think of the visual appeal of space battles when you have so much movement and traffic moving through the maps. The game would really become even more of a visual feast.

Please provide constructive feedback if you're going to reply. Thank you.
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 353
# 2
02-21-2013, 10:43 PM
I agree after kdf will get 5 tactical consoles bop/escort ships and at least one with 5 fore slots and able to put DHC on it.

What you propose is in fact : "lets increase the power of federations escorts so much they could vaporise kdf on sight "


By the way Kumari has a terrible punch had the opportunity to test it yesterday so again after you give kdf a bop and a escort ( fed had fleet defiant and kumari ) then it is ok to increase the firepower of all escorts in game.

Until then it would be unfair and game breaking in my opinion
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 37
# 3
02-21-2013, 10:58 PM
As primarily an Escort captain, I totally agree. We already get a bonus to defence based on speed, but yeah - probably not enough if the hull / shields were to be adjusted to make the ships "less tanky". If this was all adjusted correctly this system IMO could work really well.

Personally I've used these strafing runs with the present escorts (esp. the bugship) as I race in with cannons blazing, then have my torps firing from the rear as I pass by... but this is only really useful in things like Cure Space etc. against the generators etc. as ship targets will (usually) have full shields at the rear - making this useless against other targets (unless you use the torps with 50% shield penetration).

Nice idea.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 278
# 4
02-21-2013, 11:27 PM
I concur with the notion that making escorts less tanky and more evasive could work, it would make flying one more dynamic in action aside point and spam skills. It would force people to actually plan their run in and out, keep moving, and eliminate these 'sit and spin to win' builds you see with things like the JHAS (that ship itself is a whole different can of worms for another thread though.) I would much rather fly something that simply avoided fire rather than trying to tank it 'just enough' to outlive my target.

As for the weapon change up, though, I am not feeling. Beams could use a bit of a hand, but fiddling with arcs over damage is just trying to tinker unnecessarily.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 231
# 5
02-22-2013, 01:09 AM
Whilst in theory your suggestion has merit, I'm against it for 1 reason in particular:

Some escorts in this game are cruisers that were re-purposed and pigeon-holed into the escort tree to fill gaps.

Whilst zipping in and out and performing breakneck maneuvers would be awesome for the Defiant, it would look terrible on some of the other escorts. Take the Armitage for example. That thing is huge for an escort, bigger then a lot of cruisers, I just can't see it dashing between enemy targets on strafing runs.

If they could rework escorts into 2 categories, Heavy and Light for example, then you idea could work. Make the small light escorts move and strafe like in your suggestion and let the bigger heavier ones perform like slower moving weapon platforms (pretty much like most escorts do now).
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 48
# 6 Defiant is way too slow.
02-22-2013, 02:58 AM
Having only played the game coming up to a year now, my sights were always on the fleet defiant, having seen her perform in DS9 and the water like flow she has on the battlefield I was heartily disappointed in the a fore mentioned slow moving weapon platform style of game play that the smaller escorts have, I am primarily an escort captain and will continue to be so even with the current style of play due to the massive amount of dps they can dish out, but that said I would much rather have the strafing style with improved dps over less shield/hull strength, with heavy and light escorts being a separate class i really think this could bring escorts into the roll they should be performing on the field of battle, moving fast and leaving death and destruction in their wake.

Last edited by carrisra; 02-22-2013 at 03:01 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 608
# 7
02-22-2013, 03:05 AM
You all speak as though they give two hoots about balance. They had it pretty good at launch, and very quickly screwed it up with a deluge of pay to win ships with more abilities, special consoles and weapons, and enhanced stats.

All they care about is grabbing more cash. They're not interested in making a quality game (at least, that's how it looks).
Once, I was simply called Mojo. Now, I'm forced into a new name, but don't be fooled, I'm the original STO Mojo!

Crafting, Exploration and Interaction as it should be:
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh....php?t=1108521
Career Officer
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 33
# 8
02-22-2013, 04:44 AM
I don't have anything to add to the conversation but as a tac almost exclusively in a Defiant and a person who received his first warning on these forums in 3 years responding to a different nurf thread; I have to say, I like this idea.

You'd likely still see a decrease in the overall DPS while maintaining the spirit of what an escort should be capable of and yeah...an escort is not supposed to be able to sit in place pummeling a ship without paying dearly for doing so.

Last edited by rs2965; 02-22-2013 at 04:47 AM.
Republic Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,033
# 9
02-22-2013, 05:04 AM
I would like to see an expansion of the ship "classes."

Cruisers - Eng
Destroyers - Eng/Tac hybrid
Escorts - Tac
Scouts - Tac/Sci hybrid
Science - Sci
Support - Sci/Eng hybrid

With the Vet ships and a lesser extent the Steamrunner, they have scratched the suface of the destroyers
If you believe the sky is the limit, you are aiming too low. We must reach beyond the stars - Ambassador Otungku
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,567
# 10
02-22-2013, 05:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by daboholic View Post
If they could rework escorts into 2 categories, Heavy and Light for example, then you idea could work. Make the small light escorts move and strafe like in your suggestion and let the bigger heavier ones perform like slower moving weapon platforms (pretty much like most escorts do now).
I see what you mean. Maybe the larger, the escort the more shielding it has at the expense of some of its defensive bonus? That would work for the Armitage as whilst it may not get as many strafe runs as a Defiant it will have a more consistent damage output thanks to its fighters.


Quote:
Originally Posted by scififan78 View Post
I would like to see an expansion of the ship "classes."

Cruisers - Eng
Destroyers - Eng/Tac hybrid
Escorts - Tac
Scouts - Tac/Sci hybrid
Science - Sci
Support - Sci/Eng hybrid

With the Vet ships and a lesser extent the Steamrunner, they have scratched the suface of the destroyers
I like this idea. Maybe have new abilities for the new classes, too.
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