Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 223
# 11
02-22-2013, 02:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stirling191 View Post
1) Moving a mount from aft to fore is not a trivial balance change. The ability to load another weapon into the forward salvo on a (potentially) 5-console ship is massive.
I never said or implied that the change was trivial. only that it isn't the "Oh God, NO!" moment that some think it is.

As for the rest, considering that it's filled with unfounded assumptions, and is a sight too personal for my tastes, I'll just leave you with this nugget: Archon mentioned that as a design approach they tend low-ball a ships abilities with the idea of buffing where needed after the numbers, and opinions, are in.
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 317
# 12
02-22-2013, 02:30 PM
i think you missed the point entirely it is a "Glass Cannon" and yet it has better tank than an well known supposed to be tanky escort.
Andy@andy30
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=1615554000&dateline=1  365460663
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 223
# 13
02-22-2013, 02:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tradik View Post
I've been flying the Kumari since yesterday afternoon, and slowly tweaking it. Engaged in about a dozen pvp matches (1v1 and team mix) and another dozen or so STF's. Started with my Fleet AP equip Crit build, then took the investment into the Ando. XI weaps.
Nicely written. In order to limit this to a more reasonable range of proposed requirements, I don't need any of the Ando variants to be "tanks", whatever that REALLY means. I simply don't see the point of this much potential firepower (meaning the Kumari variant) when I have to turn tail and run at the first tickle of incoming from a cube. In essence, I'm more than willing to accept the fragile nature of escorts as a tradeoff for damage output, but I shouldn't equate any of them with wearing a deathtrap. This entire excercise should be fun for me, not an engineered ordeal

Also, I don't do PvP in this game, so I can't speak to it. I don't care how the Kumari plays under those conditions.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 223
# 14
02-22-2013, 02:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kamipoi View Post
i think you missed the point entirely it is a "Glass Cannon" and yet it has better tank than an well known supposed to be tanky escort.
You've said this twice now, with slightly different wording.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,553
# 15
02-22-2013, 02:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckingram View Post
Also, I don't do PvP in this game, so I can't speak to it. I don't care how the Kumari plays under those conditions.
There-in lies a problem. Cryptic needs to design these ships for both PvE AND PvP. And if you only focus on one side of the coin, then you lose out on possible explanations for what you might see as ineptitude.

If this ship wasn't as squishy as it is, it would probably rule PvP. As is, they needed to balance it's PvP ability out, and as such it's PvE potential suffered.

Balance.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Tired of Wasting EC and Time trying to get Superior Romulan Operative BOffs? Here's a cheap and easy way to get them, with an almost 100% chance of success.
Why the Devs can't make PvE content harder.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 223
# 16
02-22-2013, 03:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hereticknight085 View Post
There-in lies a problem. Cryptic needs to design these ships for both PvE AND PvP. And if you only focus on one side of the coin, then you lose out on possible explanations for what you might see as ineptitude.

If this ship wasn't as squishy as it is, it would probably rule PvP. As is, they needed to balance it's PvP ability out, and as such it's PvE potential suffered.

Balance.
I agree completly. Thanks!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 153
# 17
02-22-2013, 03:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tradik View Post
This is what all escorts should be like. Glass cannons. As great as it would be to be able to tank like an Odyssey in it (as some Fedscorts seem to do), that is the very problem with the existing escorts...they shouldn't be able to do so, and that's coming from someone that does it. This is the trade-off...potential firepower for survivability, and so far, I think this is right on this ship, and keeps it from being the OP ship some claim it to be, while others claim is it not and desire.
I have to agree, I'm an out and out escort captain from my first day in the game. I can tank like a boss with most things. I like the kumari. its a challenge and the big dps rewards out weigh the risk. Yes its squisher then a bug/or patrol, and slightly squishier then a defiant, but hey thats trade off.

I like it, and some real bare knuckle rides in it when focused and making it out alive. its fun. if i wanted to play safer id jump in my bug or temp destroyer and really tank it up, but its nice to have the change.

Also when in PVP the idea of NEEDING a healer is more pronounced. and as the dude above says, its probably how all escorts should be. should escorts be able to tank like a boss? I was relunctant to post this for fear of an overall escort nerf ( like i said i love 'em) but in strict terms the andorian ship does pose an interesting dynamic. ie that the gap between a dps and a tanking ship should be broader, you can have one or the other, not both....

Anyways my take on it before I slap myself for giving devs the idea to nerf all escorts!

I'd try the engi or sci variant but to be honest, i have a bug so cant see them out performing it even with the 5th fore cannon at expense of losing the 5th console. could be wrong, if anything i think the variants serve as a good bridge for guys without a bug. a step up in dps without losing surviveablity, ie compared to the squisher Fleet defiant and fleet AE. then again damage control doffs do make them more viable

dont forget to come check us out on PESTF for all your dilith needs!
Ensign
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 4
# 18 AE
02-22-2013, 08:54 PM
Okay, where to start?
Well at release, the shields were bugged so any test anyone did means nothing.
After today's patch, hey presto we have here what I will be so bold as to say a "SKILL ship"
I fly BOTH the Kumari and charal, to set the record straight if you can't survive then go back to the drawing board, respec/change boffs and sort your ship out. I can survive a tax cube on elite with no problem in the Kumari and lemme tell you now if you put the time in to figure this ship out and learn how to fly it, it's undoubtedly the most powerful pve ship in the game and an exceptional quality in pvp. Im not putting my build/setup here because 90% of AE's I've fought thus far I own the living hell out of an I love to hear them scream.

Seriously though the Kumari CAN survive but you need skill. End of. It's not a "stick a noob in it and they rock" ship, it's a pro's only or premade 5-5 ship for pvp. Which is good because the tank or lack thereof will keep this version in balance so they don't nerf it.
The khyzon, is a temp destroyer with weaker shields and greater damage try it out, use your temp build, Need I say more?

The charal. Pft fly it, I will say though fleet defiant? Vs this? Oh please go fix your broken build lmao.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,352
# 19
02-22-2013, 10:40 PM
I got the set. It won't be my go to ship for my Main but my Tac Caitian will at least have an okay ship.
Ensign
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 7
# 20
03-13-2013, 12:27 PM
I really didn't think I'd like the ships performance. I held off on buying it for that reason. I dunno why I gave in and bought it - mostly because I wanted to experiment. That said, I've been pretty happy with the ship so far.

It's more fragile than the Fleet Defiant Retrofit, but also deals somewhat more damage - that's pretty much what I expected. It's a good PVE escort - especially if you have friends that can heal you. I haven't tried it, but in PVP I'd expect it to be the victim of choice for focus firing BOPs.

If you want something tougher - stick to the Saber Retrofit, Chimera, Fleet Refit (or pretty much any of the other T5 escorts).

My complaints about it are two-fold. First, it's just way too big for a ship with a crew of 86. It needs to be closer to the Defiant in size - maybe a bit smaller than a Nova (crew 150ish iirc).

Second, and more importantly, I know phasers are the 'Official Weapons of the Federation', but all these fed ships with special phaser attacks basically force you into either using phasers (so your tac consoles affect all your energy weaps), or wasting the ships special abilities because you have a different kind of energy weapon console.

Galaxy Dreadnaught = run all phasers or nerf/lose the lance
Guramba = run all disruptors or nerf/lose the Javelin
Chimera = run all phasers or nerf/lose the lotus
Fugly KDF Anniversary Ship = run all disruptors or nerf/lose the lotus
Kumari = run all phasers or nerf/lose the wing cannons

This also applies to a lesser degree to the phaser and disruptor point defense turrets - which great consoles _IF_ you are running phasers or disruptors. And of course, Fed players only have access to the phaser one and kdf to the disruptor one. They're not nearly so useful if you are running a different energy weapon type.

The thing that bugs me about this is that they make the ships weaker in other areas to balance them against having the included special weapons/attacks. So if you don't use phasers on your Kumari, the wing cannons will be much weaker (if you keep them at all) and the rest of the ship will still be weaker because they assume that everyone with a Kumrari must be using the included special wing cannon phaser attacks.

One of the best things about STO is the ship combat - and how much you can customize your ship/build. We've got all the different weapon types, BOFF stations, consoles, Captain Skills, DOFFs, etc. There are tons of options, but the special attacks on these new ships seem to be very limiting.

Just my .02,

- SC
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