Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 245
I am so annoyed right now, that I made an overview:

So apparently there are 4 different types of dialogs. And they all work differently. Even though they all look the same in the Dialogs Tab. But you get a clue, if you select them. Clue is in () below. (Also if you click the "Create Dialog" button, you can only create 1. or 2.)

1. Popup Dialog in the map
(appears on Map [])
2. Popup Dialog in the story
(appears after task [])
3. Dialog with Contact in the map (aka Default Prompt)
(default text for [] in map [])
4. Dialog with Contact in the story
(Task [])

Each dialog has 2 triggers, we look at:
1. show/hide-trigger (how the dialog initially starts, or gets disabled)
2. button-trigger (what triggers you can put on buttons)

red = the trigger is missing
green = the trigger is usable
orange= the trigger is there but can only link to "Popup Dialog in the map"

Let's start:

Popup Dialog in the map - show/hide-trigger
Immediately
Component Complete
Component Reached
Dialog Prompt Reached
Objective In Progress
Objective Complete
Never
Popup Dialog in the map - button-trigger
Immediately
Component Complete
Component Reached
Dialog Prompt Reached
Objective In Progress
Objective Complete
Never

Popup Dialog in the story - show/hide-trigger
-determined by story board-
Popup Dialog in the story - button-trigger
Immediately
Component Complete
Component Reached
Dialog Prompt Reached
Objective In Progress
Objective Complete
Never

Dialog with Contact in the map - show/hide-trigger
Immediately
Component Complete
Component Reached
Dialog Prompt Reached
Objective In Progress
Objective Complete
Never
Dialog with Contact in the map - button-trigger
Immediately
Component Complete
Component Reached
Dialog Prompt Reached
Objective In Progress
Objective Complete
Never

Dialog with Contact in the story - show/hide-trigger
-determined by story board-
Dialog with Contact in the story - button-trigger
Immediately
Component Complete
Component Reached
Dialog Prompt Reached
Objective In Progress
Objective Complete
Never

Summary:
It's confusing. Are some missing triggers intentionally disabled or limited? If so, why? Will Dialog Prompt Reached ever be able to link to all dialogs?
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,814
# 2
02-22-2013, 02:22 PM
When you put something in the storyboard, it loses triggers. I'll need to read the post more closely later.

Try looking at the trigger associated with a tree that you just put on a map. Then, make the tree an object to interact with in the storyboard. Go back and look at the lost triggers.

It kind of helps to explain the difference between the storyboard and map dialogues.

You're right. It's very confusing.

And it's not limited to just dialogues. It's a mess.

Last edited by kirksplat; 02-22-2013 at 02:28 PM.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,640
# 3
02-22-2013, 02:27 PM
When things are on the storyboard, they have to be limited, because they have to work properly for the mission to function.

Take NPC contacts for example. Put one down and you spawn and despawn whenever you want based off several types of triggers. Now if you put a talk to contact objective in with him as a target, the things you can do with him become more limited, because he MUST be there for that objective to complete and the next objective to start. If he's not attached to a storyboard objective, it doesn't break the mission if he spawns at the wrong time, but if he is on the storyboard, he must spawn at the correct time.
The Foundry Roundtable live Wednesdays at 7:30PM EST/4:30PM PST on twitch.tv/thefoundryroundtable
"I would rather take a chance on getting a change made to the game through positive engagement than know for sure that I got a change made by complaining" -drogyn1701, May 14, 2014.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,814
# 4
02-22-2013, 02:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by drogyn1701 View Post
When things are on the storyboard, they have to be limited, because they have to work properly for the mission to function.
I know that this is the intention, but there are hundred ways that we can break our missions. These limitations are just frustrating. Sure, without them I could set a contact not to be visible when that talk to contact objective is in progress... but I could also put the dude 300 meters in the sky where the player can't find him.

The npc one frustrates me to no end. If I want to beam in somebody, then I have to immediately talk to them.

It's kind of silly.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,640
# 5
02-22-2013, 02:37 PM
There's always going to be ways to intentionally break a mission. But Cryptic has to do what it can to limit the ways you can unintentionally break it, right? This means limiting some triggers on things affected by the storyboard.
The Foundry Roundtable live Wednesdays at 7:30PM EST/4:30PM PST on twitch.tv/thefoundryroundtable
"I would rather take a chance on getting a change made to the game through positive engagement than know for sure that I got a change made by complaining" -drogyn1701, May 14, 2014.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,814
# 6
02-22-2013, 02:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by drogyn1701 View Post
There's always going to be ways to intentionally break a mission. But Cryptic has to do what it can to limit the ways you can unintentionally break it, right? This means limiting some triggers on things affected by the storyboard.
It just seems like I'm constantly fighting with the storyboard, when I wouldn't have to if I had access to all the triggers.

The foundry gives the clearest instructions when stuff is in the storyboard, while triggers privilege stuff not in the storyboard. The two systems constantly fight with each other because they are designed to conflict. I'd rather have them designed to work together.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 520
# 7
02-22-2013, 02:52 PM
I picked-up the ins and outs of dialogues pretty quickly in the Foundry but I had already been modding games for years where you had to add code to do it so this was comparatively very easy. There really isn't a way to avoid this kind of convolution without a massive storm of unintended consequences. That said, it could clearly stand some streamlining but my issues with the Foundry really lay elsewhere.

Also keep in mind that one of the things that we all want the most are branching objectives and this is actually a fairly solid set-up for facilitating this down the road should the Foundry ever get the big overhaul it needs.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 129
# 8
02-23-2013, 02:45 AM
The solution is easy, make the mission outside the storyboard. You can branch there for all your liking. You are not bound by the stupid rules of objective elements.

If a mission can't be completed without the storyboard then that mission is poorly written or designed anyway.
Why? Because the player should be able to acquire every and all information, required to continue and complete the mission, through in-story dialogs. The storyboard is not an in-story feature. It is the easy button for lazy writers.

Last edited by pendra3780; 02-23-2013 at 02:55 AM.
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