Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 1 Wing Cannon Testing
02-23-2013, 01:37 PM
Test: Starbase 234 (100% hit chance, to avoid DMG vs. ACC conversation)

Offensive Powers cycled: CRF 2 & 3, TT 1 x2, APB 1 x2 (no captain powers were used)

Distance: 2 to 3 km

DOFFs: 3 x SDO

NOTES:

  • All 3 consoles were slotted for both tests.
  • I did not use the console special attacks, my testing was strictly limited to CRF/CSV
  • I did deploy the pets, however SB234 (Normal mode) destroyed them within 5 to 10s each time. They contributed nothing to the overall DPS.






Layout 1: (Wing Cannon slotted in Left most weapon slot for maximum Weapon Power)
4x MK XI Phaser DHC [CrtH]x3
1x Wing Cannon [DMG]x4

2x MK XI Phaser Turret [CrtH]x2 [CrtD]x1

4x MK XI Rare Phaser Relays


Layout 1 LOG - EDITED


Layout 2

4x MK XI Phaser DHC [CrtH]x3
1x MK XI Andorian Phaser DHC [ACC]x2 [DMG]x1

2x MK XI Phaser Turret [CrtH]x2 [CrtD]x1

4x MK XI Rare Phaser Relays

Layout 2 LOG - EDITED



As you can see the results were nearly identical (the non-wing cannon set up came out ahead, but the amount is insignificant), the Wing Cannon does not add any more DPS even in PvE with 100% chance to hit the target vs. a DHC that has no real advantage in PvE (Andorian with ACCx2).

This means it can only be worse in PvP.


Other issues:

1) Both tests utilized the Andorian Wing Cannon Platforms, you'll notice they don't show up in the logs anywhere - this is because they died nearly instantly.

2) I had a comment on the other Andorian consoles but as per tweets from Captain Gecko they are due for a buff of some kind. I'll reserve evaluation until then.

That being said as it stands now the Wing Cannon is not particularly good in PvE (it's not an improvement over a DHC, that is) and even worse in PvP, and the burst damage console is a very powerful (if extremely inaccurate in PvP) BO 3 you can only use on one specific cannon with 600% the cooldown of a typical BO 3.


Last edited by ussultimatum; 02-25-2013 at 01:20 PM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 185
# 2
02-23-2013, 01:55 PM
Thats your opinoin buddy not FACT!

My wing cannon platforms hardly ever die for starters and my wing cannon most definitely does additional dps to the tune of 10k (buffed).

It's an Awsome Pve ship, yet to take it into pvp but I'de imagine it will just be like any other escort.

It depends what skills you have trained in, Passive skills acquired, your gear not just whacking on any old weapons on any old ship then complaining it doesn't work.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 3
02-23-2013, 02:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ariseabove View Post
STUFF!!
Feel free to post your combat logs and testing.

Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,279
# 4
02-23-2013, 02:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ariseabove View Post
Thats your opinoin buddy not FACT!

My wing cannon platforms hardly ever die for starters and my wing cannon most definitely does additional dps to the tune of 10k (buffed).

It's an Awsome Pve ship, yet to take it into pvp but I'de imagine it will just be like any other escort.

It depends what skills you have trained in, Passive skills acquired, your gear not just whacking on any old weapons on any old ship then complaining it doesn't work.


I took mine into a PVP one on one with someone who simply wanted to see what it could do.


The player I was up against was a PVP'er, I am most certainly not.


I am however a more than capable escort pilot.


He was in a JHAS I was in the Tac version with all three consoles.


THe only real issues that came out of this were,


1. I am NOT a PVP player and as such was outskilled.

2. the JHAS turns on a frakking DIME, the Andorian ships do not. They turn well but are outclassed by the JHAS in turn rate.



My WCP deployments were responsible for my getting him to 50% health in roughly 5 seconds.


THe only problem with them is that they only fire when your Andorian Wing cannons fire.

If they were able to simple autofire they'd be great as they ALWAYS face the enemy.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,465
# 5
02-23-2013, 06:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ussultimatum View Post
That being said as it stands now the Wing Cannon is not particularly good in PvE (it's not an improvement over a DHC, that is) and even worse in PvP, and the burst damage console is basically a BO 3 you can only use on one specific cannon with 600% the cooldown of a typical BO 3.
You're making the very large assumption that for PvE the only way to be effective in a Kumari is to stack DHCs

Last edited by stirling191; 02-23-2013 at 07:39 PM.
Ensign
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 17
# 6
02-23-2013, 07:49 PM
It completely jives with what I saw in my tests. He is talking about the wing cannons also, not the WC platforms.

In my tests I used a stand alone DHC and then a WC with no other cannons on the whole ship.

The issue is clearly how CRF interacts with the WCs. I have a suspicion the lower firing rate of the WC does not play well with CRF and instead of getting a DPS boost from the increased # of shots the only aspect of CRF that is effecting the WCs is the lowering of damage per shot.

I scanned through the whole in game combat log of each fight and looked at the hits. The WCs per the CRF description in stowiki should be routinely hitting in the 2500ish range on my ship given my base damage. However, the majority of the CRF hits with it were around 1000ish. My DHCs did much better.

The only way the WCs make up the differences to be close to the DHCs in the damage averages of his log is that they have big auto attack hits.

I'm not bad mouthing the ship because I love it. I survive just fine in STFs in the tac version. Bottom line is though I don't use any of the consoles and I don't mount the wing cannons and that's because the ship performs better without them.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 7
02-23-2013, 08:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stirling191 View Post
You're making the very large assumption that for PvE the only way to be effective in a Kumari is to stack DHCs

1) My testing was to show a comparison of 4 DHC + 1 Wing Cannon vs. 5 DHCs. Nothing you do beyond that set up will change what the Wing Cannon is going to realistically do.

2) All cannons is still one of, if not the most, consistent DPS layouts, even in PvE. This is not an assumption, this is from over 12 months of grinding STFs and log parsing dozens of ships and ship layouts (quite literally, thousands of ESTFs. I have 10 L50 characters in full MK XII MACO / OMEGA / KHG and in most cases multiple sets, 90% of which was attained pre-rep system).

3) Feel free to show your own testing and data.

Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,470
# 8
02-23-2013, 11:20 PM
I'm not going to do testing to show this as it's late and I couldn't be bothered.

In my past testing I've found that the weapon you place in the left-most slot ALWAYS does more damage. I can't figure out why but I've seen it make up to a 5% difference.

When I've done weapon testing I've found the best way is to have only one of each type of weapon on the ship. That way the parser doesn't show you the sum of multiple weapons. Sure, you might run a skittle boat but if you're capable in eSTFs then you'll be fine in a skittle boat in normal STFs.
Career Officer
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 242
# 9
02-24-2013, 01:53 AM
I have tested all the Andorian Escorts with all kinds of set ups. (I do have everything currently available in the game, so all sets all ships etc, I am a collector). Or like the Borg would do: I've assimilated all

My conclusions are:

1. They are definitely not over powered. in fact other existing ships allow builds with e.g. higher DPS. (If you think they are overpowered that should be an incentive to optimize your current build).

2. They do not add a new game-play style. If you think it does I am interested to hear which type of game style with this ship cannot be done with any other existing ship.

3. No "must buy" ships (see point 1), just If you like them you buy them like I did for the collection.

Remark: Cryptic's strategy of nerfing and un-nerfing and creating variations etc is a method to create dynamics and sales. If everything would be completely static and predicable, game would feel more boring. And people would not feel the incentive to fiddle around, check out new stuff, etc for example to keep their build optimal.

Last edited by totenmet; 02-24-2013 at 02:09 AM. Reason: text corrections
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 220
# 10
02-24-2013, 01:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by darramouss1 View Post
I'm not going to do testing to show this as it's late and I couldn't be bothered.

In my past testing I've found that the weapon you place in the left-most slot ALWAYS does more damage. I can't figure out why but I've seen it make up to a 5% difference.
Because your weapons fire from left to right and the left most weapon fires with the benefit of having weapon power maxed completely, where as the second third and fourth will have less as weapon power goes down from use of the previous weapons in the sequence.
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