Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 145
# 1 Mooching and You
02-23-2013, 05:39 PM
So, I just left an infected run. The second I zone in I noticed that the optional had already failed and we were one person short, lovely.

Still, I soldiered on, trying to pick up the pieces and move forward when I noticed an idler parked on the other side of the planet, tried to kite some mobs over to force a reaction but they apparently dont go that far.

Come to find out, this person is fully engaged... in the act of mooching.

They held a convo with me for a bit even.

So, I did what I usually do in these situations, reported them.

The thing thats nagging me is that this person rationalized this activity by pointing out "Its just a game"

So? You mooching is ruining everyone elses fun, 1 person mooching can ruin the run, especially in PUG.

Something needs to be done about this, I know there are a lot of topics calling for the same thing, but its a growing problem that should have been snuffed out a whole hell of a lot sooner.

What to do when this happens?

Right click on user and report to GM for idling in stf, before you do so see if they react to any tells first, adds to the report if they are actively mooching and not AFK.

Right now this is the only way we can combat this, and I believe not enough people are using this option since I tend to see the same people doing it over and over.
InGame - @Darth_Tauri
Joined - 9/2011
"You Best Make Peace With Your Dear & Fluffy Lord" - Malcolm Reynolds
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,889
# 2
02-23-2013, 05:44 PM
Nothing seems to happen when you report AFkers. I just let the STF fail, or in infected since it cant fail, you can leave and stf without penalty 15 min after it started. You just have to guess if already in one that started.
Republic Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 463
# 3
02-23-2013, 06:10 PM
This AFK issue was brought to Dan's attention in the old Fleet Marks thread. I am sure he was aware of it before then. At this point they have not given any indication that reporting an AFKer will have any consequence to that player. I'm not sure if it's even worth reporting.

Dan said they are aware of the problem and are looking into options to combat this.

In another game I have played, team members can report a player AFK and they will be marked as idle, preventing them from receiving any benefits from the run until they engage in combat. Sure, this may not work with trolls looking to just run around and cause problems for your group, but to an AFKer this is probably the worst thing. If we had something like that, I am sure it would significantly reduce the AFK problem once people were aware that they wouldn't get anything if they just sit in a run doing nothing.
_______________________________
To answer your question, yes. - @Executive_Emily - I have a Website? Oh, yeah! I do.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 908
# 4
02-23-2013, 06:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by olivia211 View Post
This AFK issue was brought to Dan's attention in the old Fleet Marks thread. I am sure he was aware of it before then. At this point they have not given any indication that reporting an AFKer will have any consequence to that player. I'm not sure if it's even worth reporting.

Dan said they are aware of the problem and are looking into options to combat this.

In another game I have played, team members can report a player AFK and they will be marked as idle, preventing them from receiving any benefits from the run until they engage in combat. Sure, this may not work with trolls looking to just run around and cause problems for your group, but to an AFKer this is probably the worst thing. If we had something like that, I am sure it would significantly reduce the AFK problem once people were aware that they wouldn't get anything if they just sit in a run doing nothing.
now THAT sounds promising :O

It has the benefits of not being a troll tool of 3vote kick off, (well not unless a player has blown up in the last slither of boss hp..) but that seems unlikely.

But yeah, kinda wish this would be implemented,
Sit about = no reward
Forces people to at least contribute

Only sad thing is, like you said, if there are trolls, they can still mess things up, but i suppose the vote-idle is to target afkers, not trolls ^^
Tactical Cube deals 338364 (204629) Kinetic Damage to Tactical Cube with Plasma Torpedo - Heavy III.
Recoil damage... Burn
Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 460
# 5
02-23-2013, 06:49 PM
I'm okay with that as it doesn't punish people who go AFK for emergency reasons or whatever in any major way. Seems balanced.

I've had to go AFK, but I hate doing it and try to avoid it when possible. I don't mooch, I actually enjoying playing :p . Stuff comes up, like a boiling pot of water or work emergency.

I've also been disconnected from Server and those who suffer disconnect should still get thier reward.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 203
# 6
02-23-2013, 06:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordgyor View Post
I'm okay with that as it doesn't punish people who go AFK for emergency reasons or whatever in any major way. Seems balanced.

I've had to go AFK, but I hate doing it and try to avoid it when possible. I don't mooch, I actually enjoying playing :p . Stuff comes up, like a boiling pot of water or work emergency.

I've also been disconnected from Server and those who suffer disconnect should still get thier reward.
Yeah, but how hard is it to type 'doorbell' or something like that just to at least let the others know you speak English and are actually there, just have an 'emergency'. We've all been there, we're referring to the deliberate players who AFK.

Of course, if you never come back, then I still don't think you should benefit from the others work regardless. There should be a time limit on DC's within those instances as well to log in and still be in-group IMO.
____

The o3 - Killed you good
Career Officer
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 2,271
# 7
02-23-2013, 06:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by olivia211 View Post
This AFK issue was brought to Dan's attention in the old Fleet Marks thread. I am sure he was aware of it before then. At this point they have not given any indication that reporting an AFKer will have any consequence to that player. I'm not sure if it's even worth reporting.

Dan said they are aware of the problem and are looking into options to combat this.

In another game I have played, team members can report a player AFK and they will be marked as idle, preventing them from receiving any benefits from the run until they engage in combat. Sure, this may not work with trolls looking to just run around and cause problems for your group, but to an AFKer this is probably the worst thing. If we had something like that, I am sure it would significantly reduce the AFK problem once people were aware that they wouldn't get anything if they just sit in a run doing nothing.
Trust me. It won't work unless implemented right. I've seen a similar system and it made things worse.

Guild Wars 1. They added a system sometime back where you could flag a team member as a "leecher" or "bot" and for each report it would give the player's account a point. After so many points the player ended up with the Dishonorable hex automatically, thus preventing them from joining any kind of PVP match throughout the game for about 15 minutes. It took an hour for the points to expire. If they were reported again within an hour, even by just 1 player, the Dishonorable hex would last even longer, up to about an hour max I think where you couldn't join any kind of PVP match.

Did this work? Not in the slightest. Why? It created apathy among the players. The reason for the apathy? You needed at least 3/4 of the team to report a single player for leeching without getting any marks on your own account. If not enough team members reported the player, you would get a point on your account. If you report too many actual leechers and nobody else does, eventually you end up with the Dishonor hex yourself and can't enter any type of PVP even though you were participating in the matches. There was no way to see how many negative points you had on your account or tell how much time you had to go without being reported again before you got the Dishonorable hex again.

The reason for players doing the reporting being punished was to discourage greefing, i.e. "you suck! reported". It was to prevent players from reporting others who did participate in the match but weren't as skilled as someone else wanted them to be.

Nobody would do the right thing and report leechers and bots out of fear of being punished themselves. The leechers/bots took advantage of this and continued on doing what they do best: absolutely nothing. Most of these leechers and bots were stolen/hacked accounts being used by gold sellers and they had plenty of accounts and were willing to hack more accounts to replace the ones perma-banned for violating the game rules.

A couple years ago I finally had it with Guild Wars. It's aggravating when most or all of your team mates in every match are bots set up by gold sellers. I was looking forward to Guild Wars 2 and planned to buy it but......about a couple days after it launched there was an official post on Reddit from Arenanet admitting there was a bot and account theft problem in GW2. I've seen player screen shots showing large groups of farm bots in the game in a single location. I decided I'm not going to put up with that **** ever again and ended up trying out Star Trek Online. Arenanet still doesn't do anything about the bot/leecher problem. Sure you could file a support ticket with the character name and they say they ban them if found to violate the rules but they still run rampant. I don't know how I put up with it for 5+ years and don't understand why others put up with it as well.

I've only seen about 3 spam bots advertising a website to buy in game currency/items for real money in ESD local chat near the bank. Been a few months since I've seen the last one. I might just be lucky not to be in the same instance and them all the time lol
Self Portrait

Last edited by monkeybone13; 02-23-2013 at 06:55 PM.
Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 488
# 8
02-23-2013, 06:57 PM
The first thing they could do is drop rewards to zero if you don't deal or take any damage in an STF. That would at least get the moochers involved for the few moments necessary to qualify, which would hopefully entice them into actually playing the game.

This is one of those areas where metrics actually can help; Cryptic can target a damage dealt/received threshold based on the average "minimum effort" indicated by their metrics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeybone13 View Post
Trust me. It won't work unless implemented right. I've seen a similar system and it made things worse.
Your analogy isn't particularly apt. There are major differences between the suggested system, and what you're relating from GW1. Your caution is noted, but unwarranted (so far).

Quote:
Originally Posted by trellabor View Post
There should be a time limit on DC's within those instances as well to log in and still be in-group IMO.
Legitimate DCs are already handled reasonably well, unless you DC right at the end of an STF (because the auto-loot rewards used for the other maps apparently just aren't good enough for STFs, or STFs are too good to use the superior auto-loot reward system).

Last edited by millimidget; 02-23-2013 at 07:05 PM.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 790
# 9
02-23-2013, 07:00 PM
Dan mentioned in the recent interview he did on STOked that this is being looked into and several options are being considered.

***Disenchanted***
Real Join Date: Monday, 17 May 2010
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 203
# 10
02-23-2013, 07:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeybone13 View Post
Trust me. It won't work unless implemented right. I've seen a similar system and it made things worse.

Guild Wars 1. They added a system sometime back where you could flag a team member as a "leecher" or "bot" and for each report it would give the player's account a point. After so many points the player ended up with the Dishonorable hex automatically, thus preventing them from joining any kind of PVP match throughout the game for about 15 minutes. It took an hour for the points to expire. If they were reported again within an hour, even by just 1 player, the Dishonorable hex would last even longer, up to about an hour max I think where you couldn't join any kind of PVP match.

Did this work? Not in the slightest. Why? It created apathy among the players. The reason for the apathy? You needed at least 3/4 of the team to report a single player for leeching without getting any marks on your own account. If not enough team members reported the player, you would get a point on your account. If you report too many actual leechers and nobody else does, eventually you end up with the Dishonor hex yourself and can't enter any type of PVP even though you were participating in the matches. There was no way to see how many negative points you had on your account or tell how much time you had to go without being reported again before you got the Dishonorable hex again.

The reason for players doing the reporting being punished was to discourage greefing, i.e. "you suck! reported". It was to prevent players from reporting others who did participate in the match but weren't as skilled as someone else wanted them to be.

Nobody would do the right thing and report leechers and bots out of fear of being punished themselves. The leechers/bots took advantage of this and continued on doing what they do best: absolutely nothing. Most of these leechers and bots were stolen/hacked accounts being used by gold sellers and they had plenty of accounts and were willing to hack more accounts to replace the ones perma-banned for violating the game rules.

A couple years ago I finally had it with Guild Wars. It's aggravating when most or all of your team mates in every match are bots set up by gold sellers. I was looking forward to Guild Wars 2 and planned to buy it but......about a couple days after it launched there was an official post on Reddit from Arenanet admitting there was a bot and account theft problem in GW2. I've seen player screen shots showing large groups of farm bots in the game in a single location. I decided I'm not going to put up with that **** ever again and ended up trying out Star Trek Online. Arenanet still doesn't do anything about the bot/leecher problem. Sure you could file a support ticket with the character name and they say they ban them if found to violate the rules but they still run rampant. I don't know how I put up with it for 5+ years and don't understand why others put up with it as well.

I've only seen about 3 spam bots advertising a website to buy in game currency/items for real money in ESD local chat near the bank. Been a few months since I've seen the last one. I might just be lucky not to be in the same instance and them all the time lol
Some good points you make there, I remember GW1 fiasco with that system....yeesh.

IMO, we need a revamped grouping system with a LFG/Team window where people can start a group asking for what level/class/instance and players can apply to the group leader. The current auto-queue system leaves too much opportunity for AFK'ing and exploiting while being very vague, and we also need the ability for group leader's to kick players IMO. I know, I know, 'but people will abuse it!!11!' well guess what, they abuse this system right now. I've played more games using the kick method and while some people do abuse it, it's not been an issue to the extreme this seems to be in STO.

The whole currency system is another thorn in my side but really another debate in of itself.
____

The o3 - Killed you good
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:47 PM.