Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 152
# 111
02-27-2013, 10:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lincolninspace View Post
Kirk said once "Scotty you've just earned your week's pay"....in the episode with the planet killer, IIRC.

The no money thing was a bad idea thrown inreportedly by Gene (I have read that somewhere before but if I'm wrong feel free to correct me) with obviously little thought on it except to make it look like humanity was oh so pure in the 24th century. It is canon, however, except when its not, as your link shows.

maybe if there is another Trek show in the future they'll drop it so I can stop throwing things at my TV.

Because I don't see it happening in real life, at least not in this millenium. I can see some kind of super space travel in a few hundred years, I can even buy a world united in a few hundred years. A world with no money and free stuff for all? Nope. Not unless its the world of really fat dudes that don't do anything but eat, sleep and fornicate. Thats assuming we don't nuke ourselves out of existence.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 152
# 112
02-27-2013, 10:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tobar26th View Post
Just addressing this one alone, it's interesting to remember that TNG always showed this utopian society, but remember that the Enterprise was often on the far reaches and away from 'real' earth. They perhaps idealised Earth a bit. I always felt DS9 did a better job of portraying Earth.
Utopian? With the corrupt admirals Starfleet seems to produce it reminds me of a line by a character in the late, great Jack Kirby's original Eternals comics. "Paradise is just another place."
Captain
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,394
# 113
02-27-2013, 10:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sollvax View Post
so far no possibility of transporters
Quantum Teleportation is slowly opening the door for replication and well as transportation. Maybe not quite people, but stuff.

Quote:
warp drive or any of the other "CORE" systems (warp drive is probably impossible as it requires the laws of physics to be wrong)
Humanity keeps trying to break down the ability to travel long distances. I think that's one area where the laws of physics may get rewritten eventually.

Oh and HEY ... check this out ...

CLOAKING DEVICE!


So that's another bit of Trek seeping into real life. Heh.
Ensign
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 5
# 114 I want Warp Drive
02-27-2013, 10:54 AM
I would really like to see us get to the point of Warp Drive, or at least a mode of transportation that propels a ship at great speeds without the use of fossil fuels.

This may be impossible, but then again, some of the smartest people just 100 years ago thought it was impossible for man to fly... and then a pair of bicycle mechanics launched the age of flight and a race to the moon.
Captain
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,761
# 115
02-27-2013, 11:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by captnurntumber View Post
Utopian? With the corrupt admirals Starfleet seems to produce it reminds me of a line by a character in the late, great Jack Kirby's original Eternals comics. "Paradise is just another place."
Then there's the fact that starfleet seems to be everywhere policing everyone. A society with no money is ore some money or whatever... Its almost like Gene Roddeny got an american company to make a communist tv show in space.

Ancient Rome was a society with massive unemployment due to all the slavery and the state provided free bread and circuses.
Play more STO Foundry! (You can thank me later.)

A TIME TO SEARCH: ENTER MY FOUNDRY MISSION at the RISA SYSTEM in the SIRIUS SECTOR

Last edited by lincolninspace; 02-27-2013 at 11:57 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,327
# 116
02-27-2013, 11:14 AM
I've kind of reconsidered the "no money" concept. I still think it could work, but humanity won't be ready to do it right for a long time. Too obsessed with "rewards" and "instant gratification" all that stuff.

For the time being, I think the best thing to do is make ethics and morals a stronger point in the education system. Instead of teaching students how to suck as much money as possible from everyone else, we should be teaching them right and wrong, and why it makes more sense to do the right thing. If enough people start thinking like that, a peaceful United Earth has a much greater chance of happening.

I'm still confident that we'll find our way eventually. There's only so many times you can make a mistake before learning from it, and as long as some insane dictator doesn't nuke everybody I think we'll get thing right in the end.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 152
# 117
02-27-2013, 11:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lincolninspace View Post
Then there's the fact that starfleet seems to be everywhere policing everyone. A society with no money is ore some money or whateve... Its like Gene Roddeny got an american company to make a communist tv show in space.
Well, in TNG and after the command officers wore red....

I think the problem is that a lot of things just weren't thought out too well, or thrown in just to make it look like humanity had become Utopian. The no money thing is a pet peeve of mine, but I have smaller ones....nost of them because they seem like they were just thrown out in a pandering kinda fashion, and don't in anyway matter to the plots. (YMMV, but trust me, I sincerely feel this way about the following. You may not want to read it if you're a die hard purist.)

Like "Humans no longer eat meat"....except when they do. O' Brien even talked about how his mother used to make lamb shanks or mutton or whatever. So I suppose there are entire continents on Earth filled with cows, sheep, chickens, etc since no one is eating them. Now I don't actually care if thats the way they want it, it just felt awkward when Riker said that in an early TNG episode and I knew it'd be contradicted sooner or later. I don't have anything against vegetarians I just find it difficult to believe the entirity of mankind decided "meat bad!".

Or the "Starfleet isn't military" thing. Except that they are. But not when they say they aren't. Phil Farrand had a page in one of his nitpicker's guides specifically nailing the contradictions in this. Of course this was said just to show how humans are no longer warlike conquerors. All fine and dandy, except military doesn't automatically equal bad evil guys that want to take your stuff and kill you. 23 years of active duty I can tell you we're the last guys to like going to war. I've never been on a deployment I wanted to go on and its pants crappingly scary to be shot at. I wish I still had those books...they were blown away with my entire house in a tornado.

It also makes the Federation look a bit niave. Several clearly hostile empires around you and you don't have a military? (except when you do, which is when they stop saying they aren't, but if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, you know the rest....)

I'm not even going to get started on the families on Starships thing. Sure it was merely a device for a few plots (Yay...Captain Picard Day! Admittedly I liked that episode) but it convinced me that Starfleet had officially lost its mind. I hope all those relatives of the people lost at Wolf 359 got some kind of compensation. Well, more holodeck time since no one has any money.

As for the threads original topic: I don't think any of what I said just now is possible either.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 152
# 118
02-27-2013, 12:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by psycoticvulcan View Post

For the time being, I think the best thing to do is make ethics and morals a stronger point in the education system. Instead of teaching students how to suck as much money as possible from everyone else, we should be teaching them right and wrong, and why it makes more sense to do the right thing. If enough people start thinking like that, a peaceful United Earth has a much greater chance of happening.

I'm still confident that we'll find our way eventually. There's only so many times you can make a mistake before learning from it, and as long as some insane dictator doesn't nuke everybody I think we'll get thing right in the end.
I'd agree with that especially the teaching kids right and wrong stuff. I don't think people even bother to monitor their kids anymore. Every time I watch the local news I end up screaming "Where the heck were your parents?". Heck, kids today are why I paid for alarm systems, motion sensors all through my yard and weapons in the house. I'm gettin' too old to fight someone 30 years younger, but if ya break in here you'd better bring an ambulance.

Kids scare me. (I'm almost fifty...anyone under 25 is a kid to me)
Career Officer
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,619
# 119
02-27-2013, 02:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by captnurntumber View Post
I'd agree with that especially the teaching kids right and wrong stuff. I don't think people even bother to monitor their kids anymore. Every time I watch the local news I end up screaming "Where the heck were your parents?". Heck, kids today are why I paid for alarm systems, motion sensors all through my yard and weapons in the house. I'm gettin' too old to fight someone 30 years younger, but if ya break in here you'd better bring an ambulance.

Kids scare me. (I'm almost fifty...anyone under 25 is a kid to me)
Do you honestly think things were any differnent fifty years ago? With motorcycle gangs, hippies and war protestors?

How about a hundered and fifty years ago? Ever see Gangs of New York?

Every generation assumes their children's generation is the downfall of society. Except it never is. Every generation produces its share of obnoxious and/or violent idiots. These people wind up on TV a lot and everyone else supposes that society must be doomed, because of "kids today." But at least 90% of kids today are in school, studying hard, mostly obeying their parents and will turn out alright.

"The Snowmenz Are Coming! The Snowmenz Are Coming!!"

The Masterverse Timeline / Ten Forward Fanfics
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 152
# 120
02-27-2013, 03:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sander233 View Post
Do you honestly think things were any differnent fifty years ago? With motorcycle gangs, hippies and war protestors?

How about a hundered and fifty years ago?
Huh? Dude I'm not 175 years old. Do you think I'm a Time Lord or something?

Quote:
Ever see Gangs of New York?
Nope. Can't stand Leonardo Dicaprio.

Quote:
Every generation assumes their children's generation is the downfall of society. Except it never is. Every generation produces its share of obnoxious and/or violent idiots. These people wind up on TV a lot and everyone else supposes that society must be doomed, because of "kids today." But at least 90% of kids today are in school, studying hard, mostly obeying their parents and will turn out alright.
Show me where I said anything about the fall of society and how "when I was a kid we were angels". Because I didn't. I did say "kids today" so maybe I should have just said "some kids". But its not like I said "In my day we left our doors unlocked and kids helped old ladies cross the street". We didn't.

I'm not naive, whats different is that I am not 30 years old, and I said I'm too old to have to wrestle with someone 30 years or younger than I am. Nowhere in that post did I say the downfall of society. And I've had my house broken into before....thankfully no one was home. It won't happen again. Paranoid? Well, yes, yes I am. After some jack *** firing bullets at one house next door because his girlfriend had an issue with the guy living there with his THREE YEAR OLD DAUGHTER. (Thankfully no one was hurt) You'll have to excuse me if I turn on local news and hear about kids shooting a family to death in a convenience store near here, or raping a female less than 5 miles from my home and feel a little concerned about my home family and safety. I didn't know that trying to safeguard my home and family would be so offensive.

Frankly I don't care if there were gangs roaming the countryside 150 years ago. But I do know that there are people around now that don't have a problem breaking into house, or even shooting someone over the stupidest things. They had to change the 24 hour walmart near the post to closing at 10 open at 9 because too many teenagers...not soldiers, not crazed drug addicts....were going in there at night and wrecking the place and yes, shooting each other in the parking lot. The parlking lot became a sort of hang out spot after the clubs closed or something. It was a zoo. The mall began kicking anyone under 18 out unless they had a parent with them this past fall for similar problems. So yeah, sorry if my wife and I looked at each other and said "Whats wrong with these kids, and where are their parents?".

Maybe I'm just officially old now and I'm exercising my right to be cranky and paranoid. (Though as stated, I'm not 175, so whatever happened 150 years ago doesn't fit into my home defense plans. Though I would build a moat if I could.)

And yes, I do tell people to stay off of my lawn.

Last edited by captnurntumber; 02-27-2013 at 03:11 PM.
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:46 PM.