Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 139
# 11
02-24-2013, 02:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sollvax View Post
Firstly there is no evidence of antimatter existing (its a theory ONLY like dark matter , unicorns and the Non horizon universe)

Secondly Faster than light travel and warp travel are not the same thing
"Warp" would be impossible the nature of the cosmos would ERASE anyone stupid enough to try from physical existance

the best way to move faster than light would be to get Above the galaxy and more "against" spin
then drop down
the relative combined sublight speeds could exceed crash 1 (light speed)
Antimatter most certainly does exist, positrons (antielectrons) were discovered by Carl Anderson in 1932. Any high-energy reaction in the universe seems to create antimatter, but it is immediately annihilated when it comes into contact with normal matter. Cosmic rays hitting the Earths atmosphere have been observed to create antiparticles, and the American Astronomical Society has detected the creation of positrons above thunderstorm clouds. Heck, antiparticles are created naturally by decaying radioactive isotopes. Just a few examples, there are numerous others.

I would like to know what evidence you have that supports warp travel being impossible and resulting in the annihilation of anyone trying it. My understanding of Star Trek style warp drive is it locks the vessel into a bubble of normal space, then propels that bubble through normal space-time by altering the surrounding space-time to allow for faster-than-light travel. Since it is known that space-time can be stretched, compressed, twisted, and bent in ways the human mind cannot possibly begin to fathom, the theory is still sound. Out of our current reach: absolutely, but still plausible.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,593
# 12
02-24-2013, 02:53 AM
Quote:
Antimatter most certainly does exist, positrons (antielectrons) were discovered by Carl Anderson in 1932.
but never proven
they were "proposed" not proven
Quote:
Any high-energy reaction in the universe seems to create antimatter, but it is immediately annihilated when it comes into contact with normal matter.
no
there is an observable "flash" of energy
there is No observable antimatter

Quote:
Cosmic rays hitting the Earths atmosphere have been observed to create antiparticles, and the American Astronomical Society has detected the creation of positrons above thunderstorm clouds. Heck, antiparticles are created naturally by decaying radioactive isotopes. Just a few examples, there are numerous others.
positively and negatively charged matter Exists
anti matter is not proven

Quote:
I would like to know what evidence you have that supports warp travel being impossible and resulting in the annihilation of anyone trying it.
objects are made of matter
Energy is ALWAYS a property of associated matter
Any matter moving at speeds greater than that of light or even any sizeable fraction of it
carrys enormous energy
At such speeds impact with anything however small causes destruction (commonly mistaken for anti matter im sure)

Quote:
My understanding of Star Trek style warp drive is it locks the vessel into a bubble of normal space, then propels that bubble through normal space-time by altering the surrounding space-time to allow for faster-than-light travel.
yes
this is the theory a bubble of "protected " real is forced into the semi real of "subspace" which of course probably does not exist

Quote:
Since it is known that space-time can be stretched, compressed, twisted, and bent in ways the human mind cannot possibly begin to fathom, the theory is still sound. Out of our current reach: absolutely, but still plausible
since it is known that time is immutable and space is static except when acted on by existing forces (ie the cosmos is basically fixed) its not
Time does not stretch , bend , wobble or turn green
it just is
Space also does not stretch , bend or turn Green (it can wobble)
it just is

Scientists spend lifetimes building castles in the sky as their ancestors the Alchemists and the wizards did
basically man in long coat (or robes) blinds people with technobabble (or latin) and then lives an easy life because people think he is Smarter than they are

I never trust a theory that I can't prove or disprove myself
(being fair I do not believe in anti matter , quantum materials , bigfoot or any of these other crack pot theorys because people make money out of them I may be wrong but frankly I do not trust someone who has a book to sell)
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,552
# 13
02-24-2013, 03:14 AM
All I can add is that it's important to remember, the history of science is full of people who looked like crackpots with crazy, unprovaeble theories... until technology catches up enough to test or analyze it properly, anyway.

It's totally okay to think some things are impossible or don't exist, as long as you're prepared for the possibility of being wrong.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,761
# 14
02-24-2013, 03:41 AM
so long as there are the rich, and the poor, and governments that care more about their wages than they do about the community humanity will never become united. The best we can hope for is some form of Terran Empire, that's all we're going to be.

If you think what we're like now, imagine what we'll be like in space. We wont be making peace with other species, we'll likely be invading them (for the greater good), borrowing their resources and then, once we're done with the place, we'll leave them to pick up where they left off.

Much of Trek technology is currently not possible, yet some of it is. Holographic tech will be with us within 50 years or so (if not sooner). I seem to remember reading an article some time ago stating that warp drive is theoretically impossible though, so we wouldn't have that. Such propulsion would be more like the hyperdrive seen in Stargate.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,561
# 15
02-24-2013, 03:41 AM
heads up: no matter how much evidence and proof you will present or have already presented, trollvax will ignore it.

on topic: the impulse engines are a sort of fusion reactor and very likely a means of propulsion in the future.
the warp engine, or more specifically the the warp bubble are purely science fiction...however there are theoretical works regarding the distortion of time and space. So that is maybe possible.

however beaming is not, and never will be possible. There have been experiments in which "information" (condition of a particle, or the charge) was transfered without actually interacting with each other, but this can't be seen as the first step for "beaming" as seen on the show. you cannot transport complex objects from A to B, not even a single atom actually because of the heisenberg uncertainty principle...in the show they compensate this with the heisenberg compensator. it would also be a highly ethical issue to transport living beings, since you destroy one to create one somewhere else, and possibly duplicate them endlessly.

particle guns are another story...while they are probably possible, they do not, or will not have even remotely the yield of projectile weapons.
however as a means of intercepting those projectiles they are valid, since they travel much much faster. real world applications exist already.

deflector shields are also mostly unlikely, atleast the way they are presented in the shows. The earth has a electro magnetic shield, and while it is very powerfull it can only repell charged particles, no solid object.

but there are many things that are already invented: the communicator...the idea for cellphones came from there.
Medbeds that permanently monitor vital functions...
hyposprays, they actually exist

there is already something similar to the tricorder in use...pocket computers with different devices attached like microphones, cameras...those are all scanning devices in some form. If those get more suffisticated we have our tricorder in the near future.

the economic system in star trek also fascinated me, and actually there is something similar already thought up. it is called participatory economics or parecon. http://www.zcommunications.org/topics/parecon/
Go pro or go home

Last edited by baudl; 02-24-2013 at 04:23 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,060
# 16
02-24-2013, 03:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mimey2 View Post
Technology: As it stands now, most technology in Star Trek is still very very within the realm of sci-fi, and until such a time as proved otherwise, isn't currently obtainable for us within the early 21st century.
As mentioned above, the big ticket space tech is impossible. But a lot of the handheld stuff has already come true.

Quote:
United Earth: This is the big point to me. Not so much the united governments, but more humanity as a species, at this point in time, I do honestly wonder if humanity could truly put aside all differences and such, and unite for all time like that.
Nope. We're a tribal ape species that's only barely out of the caves as far as evolution goes. And since we've pretty much sucked our planet dry, we're never going to be able to get to a point where being otherwise is beneficial.

Quote:
Aliens: Most sci-fi series make aliens be our allies or our enemies, or a mixture there-of. While I don't want to get into an argument on if aliens exist or not, just that if they did, I honestly wonder how...benevolent they might actually be. I mean, what would humanity truly have to offer the greater galaxy?
Space is far too large for use to have any sort of meaningful contact with another species. Even with just communication... assuming we can produce a message powerful enough to not degrade into static by the time it hits any receptive ears... both or either of our societies may be long dead before the hellos get said.

It's unlikely we're alone in the universe, but the scope of the universe means that we might as well be.

And that's why we make stories like Star Trek: Because the universe is indifferent to our dreams and we need to populate it somehow.
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 855
# 17
02-24-2013, 04:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sollvax View Post
so far no possibility of transporters , warp drive or any of the other "CORE" systems (warp drive is probably impossible as it requires the laws of physics to be wrong)
Transporters: Currently being tested on an EXTREMELY limited scale. I believe they've so far successfully managed to "beam" a single photon from one point in space, to another just a short distance away. Obviously nowhere near capable of transporting BILLIONS of atoms and molecules which make up the human body, but that isn't to say it's impossible.

Warp Drive: "Technically" feasible, rather than going faster than light, the theory is to "fold space" around the vessel. For more, read up on the following sites:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcubierre_drive
http://www.space.com/17628-warp-driv...aceflight.html

"Never say never" when it comes to realising imaginary things. Anything the human mind can come up with, it will inevitably be created eventually. TOS had it's communicators. Today we have cell phones. TNG had desktop computers. Today we have laptops. Most of the medical tech in Star Trek is either already developed, or being developed. Including a "medical tricorder" like device.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,990
# 18
02-24-2013, 04:34 AM
Quote:
The best we can hope for is some form of Terran Empire, that's all we're going to be.
Psssst... Not supposed to make this common knowledge, but we are living in the Mirror Universe... Didn't you know?

The technology for the big stuff might not be within our grasp yet, but, that's not to say that it never will be...

At the height of the Roman Empire, they could not create a modern computer. The engineering skill simply was not refined enough. Now, if you were to get a Roman blacksmith and a seamstress, and show them a modern pair of jeans, they'd understand it, and the blacksmith would have the skill to construct a functional zipper. But show them the iPhone in the pocket, and they'd probably start making gestures with their hands and babbling about Elysium... I might have the skill to sew a pair of jeans, and I understand how and why a zipper works, but I certainly don't have the skill to make one from scratch. I might understand that my iPhone works, and if given a tray of scraps, could probably assemble a working one, but I couldn't make the component parts myself...

I have a friend who's big into conspiracy theories, and they have said that government technology is about 20 years more advanced, than what is available to the public.

I watched a film on their advice a while back, where a speaker said that sometimes, bits of truth sneak out through movies and TV. At the time, I did not take it too literally, but a few months back, I was watching D.A.R.Y.L. with my mother in law, when I realized that towards the end, Daryl was displaying what we now understand as wireless connectivity and instant messaging...

In Tron:Legacy, Sam mentions Wi-Fi, which Flynn doesn't understand...
Sam: "Wireless interlinking of digital devices."
Flynn: "Heh, I thought of that in the eighties..."

Coinkydink?

The TNG Technical Manual describes the manner in which the touch-consoles of the Enterprise-D work, and show PADDs of different sizes... iPad and iPhone...

Apple = Chronowerx? Anyone?... Bueller...

There was an episode of Voyager which I missed, but saw photos of in a magazine, where they found what they thought was a Federation rescue ship (turned out to be an alien ruse...) and the bridge consoles featured curved control edges, and from an engineering perspective, that was some slick-looking ****... About a month or so back (Again, about twenty years after the Voyager episode) an article hits the net about a paper-thin glass product which can be curved without snapping, and which could have considerable applications for personal device screens...

So yeah, Enterprise showed us the drive rings on Vulcan ships (Actually, a picture on the wall in The Motion Picture showed us a ship with a drive ring) and now there is talk of the Alcubierre-White drive... Maybe not within the appx 50 years left of my lifespan, and certainly not till all the warring nations get their **** together and throw off the shackles of finance-based economic slavery, but to touch back on the example of the Romans understanding of technology which we consider mundane and everyday, well, I would not be closed-minded enough to refuse to consider the possibilities for advances in science and technology...

Last edited by marcusdkane; 02-24-2013 at 04:39 AM.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 30
# 19
02-24-2013, 05:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sollvax View Post
but never proven
they were "proposed" not proven


no
there is an observable "flash" of energy
there is No observable antimatter



positively and negatively charged matter Exists
anti matter is not proven



objects are made of matter
Energy is ALWAYS a property of associated matter
Any matter moving at speeds greater than that of light or even any sizeable fraction of it
carrys enormous energy
At such speeds impact with anything however small causes destruction (commonly mistaken for anti matter im sure)



yes
this is the theory a bubble of "protected " real is forced into the semi real of "subspace" which of course probably does not exist



since it is known that time is immutable and space is static except when acted on by existing forces (ie the cosmos is basically fixed) its not
Time does not stretch , bend , wobble or turn green
it just is
Space also does not stretch , bend or turn Green (it can wobble)
it just is

Scientists spend lifetimes building castles in the sky as their ancestors the Alchemists and the wizards did
basically man in long coat (or robes) blinds people with technobabble (or latin) and then lives an easy life because people think he is Smarter than they are
There are so many problems with that. I suggest visiting a basic course on philosophy of science before claiming outlandish things.

Quote:
I never trust a theory that I can't prove or disprove myself
(being fair I do not believe in anti matter , quantum materials , bigfoot or any of these other crack pot theorys because people make money out of them I may be wrong but frankly I do not trust someone who has a book to sell)
That essentially sums it up for me. Move on, there's nothing to see here.

Well anyhow, as the tech in Trek is concerned... Most of it is utter nonsense by a modern understanding of physics (heck, even by the standards of classic mechanics and thermodynamics). And well... Don't get me started on the ridged forehead aliens and the Federation economy.

In a nutshell though, Trek is essentially some great piece of food for thought and has probably inspired more than a few people's interest and thereby careers in sciences (well, I even happen to know somebody who joined the German Navy due to a thing for speculative fiction like this...). It's for these inspiring aspects of traditional Trek that I'm still a rather vivid fan, in spite of it being rather "soft" Sci-Fi.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,060
# 20
02-24-2013, 06:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sollvax View Post
I never trust a theory that I can't prove or disprove myself
I wonder if he's ever been to the South Pole to tell if it's cold?
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