Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 152
# 51
02-24-2013, 05:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by twg042370 View Post

To sum up: We're going to die on this rock.
You and I, most certainly. Future generations? Maybe, maybe not. Who knows.

But I'm sure that if the future generations do get out into the cosmos it won't be in fancy ships with magic food slots, hologram amusement parks and room for families because they've created a society where no one works for monetary payment.

I'll believe Bigfoot lives in my shed before I believe anything remotely like that is possible.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 184
# 52
02-24-2013, 05:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by artan42 View Post
No. Science needs facts and evidence, and speculation and faith is not part of the science, until it has been proven.
Semi-quoting a Voyager episode: believing that science, with time and the proper tools, will eventually find all the answers is still some kind of faith.

Anyway, I don't think Star Trek is posible, sadly, and somehow that is exactly why I like it.
Career Officer
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,219
# 53
02-24-2013, 06:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mimey2 View Post
Technology:
Read.

Everything described in Star Trek is theoretically possible, it just requires more energy than we as a species currently consume or have access to. But once we figure out how to mass-produce antimatter, (which we are working on now,) all bets are off. Transporters, warp drive, artificial gravity, inertial dampeners, tractor beams - all of this we know how to do. We just can't yet because the energy requirement is currently prohibitive.

Quote:
United Earth:
Unfortunately things will have to get a lot worse before they can get better. Even Roddenberry recognized this. That's why he wrote a global nuclear holocaust into the timeline. Even then, Earth wasn't unified until after the Vulcans made First Contact.

Eventually, inevitably, the US and China and possibly the EU will go to war with each other over competing interests or scarce resources. Wolrd War III will be waged sometime in the next half-century, either with conventional weapons or nuclear arms. But after the war there will necessarily follow a dramatic increase in technology. WWII brought us radar, jet engines, nuclear power and computers. Will WWIII see the advent of quantum teleportation, energy shields, and antimatter power? Remember, it was during WWII that we figured out how to manufacture plutonium. I imagine we'll learn to manufacture antimatter during WWIII, for similar purposes.

Quote:
Aliens:
Depending on how much stock you put into the notion of panspermia it is actually fairly likely that other intelligent life in the galaxy will have evolved into a similar "humanoid" form. When you look at a human being from an engineering perspective, we are actually a fairly efficient design. Not to discount the posibility of interdimensional life (Q!) but I think we are far more likely to discover aliens that we can actually relate to, having similar requirements for food, water, oxygen and an ambient temperature of between 0 and 100C. And among the many hundreds of billions of planets in the Milky Way, I think we are bound to find more than a few worlds that meet these requirements.

As for where we would fit in amongst alien species, I think again Roddenberry got it right. We'll be far behind some, well of others. But what we bring to the table: or innate curiosity, tenacity and adventurous spirit will bring us more allies than enemies, and the speed at which we can adapt to changes will quickly make us leaders in any "federation."


"Freedom is just a pretty idea unless it's backed by Force."

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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,060
# 54
02-24-2013, 06:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wirtdd View Post
Semi-quoting a Voyager episode: believing that science, with time and the proper tools, will eventually find all the answers is still some kind of faith.
I agree with your basic premise of people believing that science can make magic technology to take us the stars because science is good at stuff is dumb. That's why I don't accept the space travel pipe dreams.

However, science remains a process quite separate from the wishful thinking of the apes that use it. That's why disproving something is as vital as proving it. The LHC, for example, wasnt made to prove the Higgs existed. It was made to test the theory. If it had shown the Higgs didnt exist, it would be just as successful.

It's not that simple. You also have to test the tests themselves. And the material being tested, and so on. And when it can no longer be proven false, a theory is accepted as true... Barring new evidence.

Its a cludgy process. But it have been far more successful at explaining and improving our reality that faith* in it is wise.

* And by "faith" I mean "Expecting it to continue to be reliable based on previous experience" and not the typical "Because I want it to be true" we think of when we use the word "faith".
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Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,685
# 55
02-24-2013, 07:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonsills View Post
Yeah, it's not like we managed to land six manned missions on the Moon, and bring one back alive even after a disaster en route, using 1960s technology.

Oh, wait...

(I could have gone with how long the ISS has been in operation, but its panic moments, while certainly dangerous for the crew, weren't quite so, well, dramatic as Apollo XIII.)
The moon missions were in the 60's. Sadly human IQs have dropped exponentially since then to the point where people on the street don't know what number planet Earth is or what the name of their Star is. Jay Leno gets ratings from this.

I predict that very soon we will see the loss of shoe laces, these being too hard on the prevailing IQs.

The ISS is the most primitive POS ever. People from the 60's would laugh at it. It violates the primary function of a Space Station in that it is continuously harmful to those who inhabit it. Zero G is deadly to humans and the current crop of idiots at NASA forgot that they could have built a simple rotating Wheel Station to fix this.

Not a Star Trek future for humans, but a Blade Runner one is inevitable, minus the tech and off world trips of course.
If your post is anything like, "I have a sandwich so you can't be starving" it's time to rethink posting.

Last edited by thlaylierah; 02-24-2013 at 07:19 PM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 152
# 56
02-24-2013, 07:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thlaylierah View Post
The moon missions were in the 60's. Sadly human IQs have dropped exponentially since then to the point where people on the street don't know what number planet Earth is or what the name of their Star is. Jay Leno gets ratings from this.

I predict that very soon we will see the loss of shoe laces, these being too hard on the prevailing IQs.

The ISS is the most primitive POS ever. People from the 60's would laugh at it. It violates the primary function of a Space Station in that it is continuously harmful to those who inhabit it. Zero G is deadly to humans and the current crop of idiots at NASA forgot that they could have built a simple rotating Wheel Station to fix this.

Not a Star Trek future for humans, but a Blade Runner one is inevitable, minus the tech and off world trips of course.
That would be a "Mad Max" future, and I fear you may be right.

Because yes, people are becoming...well, a lot more stupid.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,685
# 57
02-24-2013, 07:57 PM
Used to be you had to have a knack for something, now you just need a piece of paper.

Society is also as a whole a lot more forgiving of failure.

Without the Discipline of the 60's, demonstrated in TOS, the people have become weak.

Another example is the Saturn V rocket. The current crop of NASA engineers failed to reproduce it after they found out you couldn't just pop a panel and copy the design as they were crafted by mastersmiths back then. The fuel mix venturies were especially well sculpted. All this is sealed inside the motor housing and unscanable even by xray, so they gave up.

Cavemen using a laptop to break rocks.
If your post is anything like, "I have a sandwich so you can't be starving" it's time to rethink posting.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,223
# 58
02-24-2013, 09:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by twg042370 View Post
But polital will is so short sighted and narrow focused, that won't happen either.
Who needs political will? There are plenty of private corporations interested in mining asteroids and the moon, and some others who want to build hotels in Earth orbit.
Please fix the Foundry lag!
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,602
# 59
02-24-2013, 10:27 PM
Are you an engineer, thlaylierah? Because from what I know of engineering, a "wheel station", so beloved of pulp SF back in the day, is hardly "simple". It assumes a steady supply of resources being shipped skyward, requiring an inexpensive and reliable launch method - or mining resources from the moon and asteroids, then making your steel and other materials in orbit.

I was there in the '60s. My father worked on the DynaSoar at Boeing, until NASA cancelled the program in favor of the nascent Space Shuttle (and that, incidentally, was the Shuttle's biggest problem - its design was begun before Armstrong walked on the moon, and construction was done with cutting-edge 1970s technology; it was obsolete before the Columbia ever flew). And the ISS would seem a bloody miracle to aerospace engineers of that era. (Do you have any idea how much trouble NASA had designing a docking collar for the Apollo-Soyuz missions? Simple compatibility with a Russian-built spacecraft would amaze them.)

The ISS is, of course, hardly the last word in space stations - for one thing, the LEO position forced on it by the Shuttle's shortcomings is hardly ideal. GEO would be better; HEO might be best. Its design could be better as well, being as it is a compromise among four separate space agencies. Every journey must begin somewhere, after all...

And pointing to Jay Leno's "Jaywalking" segments as evidence of humans becoming stupider is confirmation bias at its worst. Have you any idea how many people Leno has to buttonhole on a sidewalk to find those sublimely ill-educated folk whose ignorance he displays for our amusement? In point of fact, it's about once every twenty-five years or so that IQ test have to be recalibrated, because the average is supposed to be 100 +/- 10, and it keeps creeping upward...
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But I'm young enough to remember the future, the way things ought to be...

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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,060
# 60
02-24-2013, 10:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by psycoticvulcan View Post
Who needs political will? There are plenty of private corporations interested in mining asteroids and the moon, and some others who want to build hotels in Earth orbit.
Businessmen are part of the trifecta of human evil along with politicians and holy men. The main difference is that you can frighten a politician into behaving, being the cowardly little creatures they are. So if I had my choice, I'd go with the politician.
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