Career Officer
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 98
Hi all,

I'm working on creating a puzzle for a ground level in one of my new foundry missions. The idea flow goes like this:

- Player has three objects near them to interact with. They need to be interacted with in the right order (right order obtained from previous dialog)
- These objects are in the storyboard in a complete all block.
- Interact with the wrong object and you have to try again.

What I've run into: It doesn't work. "Task - Interact with Object" has no fail state. Dialog Popups have no failure option. Default Prompt on the objects has no failure option. The only dialog option that has a failure are "Dialog with Contact", which doesn't really work if you want the object to be an object or invisible.

I wanted to try something different from the usual dialog tree puzzles, which can be solved randomly.

Any experienced foundry authors have an idea on how to accomplish a more interesting puzzle involving object use?
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 522
# 2
02-24-2013, 01:13 AM
Won't work that way. You need to place a dialogue directly on the map and handel the puzzel through that. It is available under the "Special Objects" tab on the map screen.

Use the arrows to bring failed options back to the begining of the puzzel and and each option (until it is used) appear as a response option. Only the correct path leads to the completing while the others loop you back to the starting point.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 129
# 3
02-24-2013, 07:34 AM
Yep, won't work. "Complete all" doesn't care about the order of completion. Also, there is no way to "reset" the state of the triggers. So you can't reset the puzzle in case the player activated the consoles in the wrong order.

What you can do is to set up the correct order of activation in the storyboard as "Activate 1st console", "Activate 2nd console", "Activate 3rd console". And to confuse the player, add some default text to all 3 consoles. So all consoles will glow all the time.

The player can still simply trial and error though this puzzle, like he would do in case of a dialog based puzzle, as there are only 6 different permutations.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,414
# 4
02-24-2013, 10:36 AM
I made a puzzle that sort of works in the way you want. I created several NPCs and skinned them as props. This gave me the persistent dialog attached. I then hid the successful dialog behind a trigger so that a particular console couldn't be completed until another prop had been completed.

The big problem with this method is that the Dialog with Contact objective adds a "Talk to..." to the beginning of the interact button. In my case my puzzle involved using specialized equipment in the correct order, so I named my NPC props things like "Science Officer about Phased Relay." Thus when the player went to interact with the NPC, they would see "Talk to Science Officer about Phased Relay." That solution is somewhat situational though.

What you can also try is using a single console (either an NPC contact or an object that triggers a map dialog) that has multiple tasks that must be completed in a particular order. This would involve two identical columns of dialog one right, one wrong. If the player enters an incorrect option, it leads over to the wrong column. Since the right and wrong column look the same, the player doesn't know it's wrong until you tell them at the end and either fail them or send them back to the top to try again.

@greendragoon
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 154
# 5
02-25-2013, 10:12 AM
You can make circumstances for completing in the wrong order, but not in the
"complete all" sequence in the storyline. In my ABI mission, if you choose the wrong console in the wrong order, you have to face some Borg Nasties. I had to make each one a seperate part of the storyline, like Easter Eggs to make it work this way. But the others are right as far as complete all, that setup has no order preference.

DoR
ABI-Artificial Borg Intelligence by Duke-of-Rock Available on Holodeck
Also play Spawn of Medusa - The 5 Part series
by Duke-of-Rock Available on Holodeck
Community Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,282
# 6
02-25-2013, 12:45 PM
Something that might be useful to people creating puzzles or other conditional triggers...

Buttons in the dialogue trees now have "state" and can be triggered from hidden to visible and back to hidden. This will allow you to hide parts of a particular dialogue and control its' flow.

The key here is that you can only trigger state changes based on a success, so a failure in a dialog tree has to represent something that doesn't change as a result.

(You might have to represent a negative outcome as a "successful" dialogue)

You can use the same functionality to trigger the state on map objects. So by being able to hide certain buttons in a dialogue based on a previous dialogue, you can force state to change or prevent changes in state on an object based on whether that dialogue succeeds or fails.

You may have to use a succession of dialogue trees and duplicate objects to achieve the intended result. Each dialogue tree or object can only be used in one trigger. Also, you can't trigger a button within the same dialogue tree so you will need more than one dialogue tree to make it work.
Volunteer Community Moderator for the Star Trek Online forums -- My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. If you wish to speak to someone on the community team, file a "forums and website" support ticket here, as we are not able to respond to PMs regarding moderation inquiries.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Community Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,282
# 7
02-25-2013, 12:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluegeek View Post
{snip}
P.S. Any "Talk to Contact" objectives on the storyboard must end in a success to advance the story; a failure result prevents you from moving to the next objective. So these kinds of dialogue trees don't work for setting up conditional triggers for optional objectives.
Volunteer Community Moderator for the Star Trek Online forums -- My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. If you wish to speak to someone on the community team, file a "forums and website" support ticket here, as we are not able to respond to PMs regarding moderation inquiries.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 13,007
# 8
02-25-2013, 01:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thedukeofrock View Post
You can make circumstances for completing in the wrong order, but not in the
"complete all" sequence in the storyline. In my ABI mission, if you choose the wrong console in the wrong order, you have to face some Borg Nasties. I had to make each one a seperate part of the storyline, like Easter Eggs to make it work this way. But the others are right as far as complete all, that setup has no order preference.

DoR
couldn't you hide some parts of a complee all until people did the other parts?
HAIL HYDRA!

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
I can haz joystick!
MMOs aren't charities. Corporations are supposed to make a profit. It's what they do.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 129
# 9
02-25-2013, 03:24 PM
Quote:
The key here is that you can only trigger state changes based on a success, so a failure in a dialog tree has to represent something that doesn't change as a result.
??? What do you mean by that? You can trigger state change based on "Dialog prompt reached". You can use any and all dialog prompts for that, even one that leads to failure.


Quote:
You can use the same functionality to trigger the state on map objects. So by being able to hide certain buttons in a dialogue based on a previous dialogue, you can force state to change or prevent changes in state on an object based on whether that dialogue succeeds or fails.
Again, this made little sense to me. Dialogs can loop, regular objects can't. You can reset the puzzle as many times as you want in a dialog.


Quote:
You may have to use a succession of dialogue trees and duplicate objects to achieve the intended result. Each dialogue tree or object can only be used in one trigger. Also, you can't trigger a button within the same dialogue tree so you will need more than one dialogue tree to make it work.
This way, you use dialogs like regular objects thus, you just lost the resetability of the puzzle. Also, you CAN trigger a button in the same dialog. See "Dialog prompt reached".

Quote:
couldn't you hide some parts of a complee all until people did the other parts?
I don't think so. Objects used in the current objective are always visible. Also hiding the consoles kinda defeats the purpose of the puzzle. If you see 1 active console at a time, the number of possible permutations goes down to 1.

Last edited by pendra3780; 02-25-2013 at 03:28 PM.
Community Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,282
# 10
02-26-2013, 01:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pendra3780 View Post
??? What do you mean by that? You can trigger state change based on "Dialog prompt reached". You can use any and all dialog prompts for that, even one that leads to failure.
Was not aware of that... I'll have to look into it.
Volunteer Community Moderator for the Star Trek Online forums -- My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. If you wish to speak to someone on the community team, file a "forums and website" support ticket here, as we are not able to respond to PMs regarding moderation inquiries.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:57 PM.