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Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,757
becuase not only will it effect fed escorts and some Cruisers but it will impact greatly on the KDF I fear.
We use a fair bit of cannons (its our thing) on our ships and too hard a nerf will make DHCs unaffective against Cruiser healing and healing in general, putting us at a disadvantage in combat.
Given that (imo) the other cannon options are poor substitutes and need an upgrade, I think it could be a bad move.


The main thread is in the PvP forums.

Thoughts?
Roy Hatch (stryker) soldier, friend, and good man.
1945-2014
RIP
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 203
# 2
03-06-2013, 04:33 PM
It seems like Cryptic will do anything to muzzle the KDF and put us at a disadvantage. Any nerf to the DHC's is a bad idea.

Off topic I know but didnt the escorts and cruisers already take a nerf way back when all the KDF had was pvp and a few missions or somewhere about that time period?
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Join Date: Feb 2013
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# 3
03-06-2013, 04:44 PM
Its a really stupid idea, it would totally unbalance the healing to dps mechanic to a degree that would just be totally stupid.

Also aren't DHC's more energy efficient because of the slower firing cycle? So even if you up the energy drain of a DHC its still going to retain its power efficiency because it is still firing slower?

Or is that just me being silly?

A smarter thing to do would be to buff beams slightly either their damage output or the energy drain, and make the other cannon types worth using, I mean can anyone say they have ever used a single cannon on a build because I can't think of a reason to.

Either that or give cruisers a power regen bonus since they are bigger ships and have massive warp cores and better eps systems ect ect. Regardless there are options avaiable to the devs to change stuff slightly without nerfing stuff because nerfs are nearly always a bad idea both for players and devs.
toDuj 'oS rol.

Last edited by zipagat; 03-06-2013 at 04:56 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 3,319
# 4
03-06-2013, 04:56 PM
ship stats by ship size.
think about it, most of the problems are being caused by ships that are as big as cruisers & move like shuttles.

only thing i have seen firing beams in the show where negvars, and they are bigger than galaxies, the issue is the raptor & patrol escort sized ships that are the same size as cruisers yet magically manage 1 second 180 turns

if that stopped, the all cannon birds would still keep their massive burst damage but others would end up more mixed beam/cannon for effectivness.
as it turns out, an intrepid would lose a fight with a connie.
and thats canon.
! the power of plot compels you.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,054
# 5
03-06-2013, 05:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by magnumstar View Post
It seems like Cryptic will do anything to muzzle the KDF and put us at a disadvantage. Any nerf to the DHC's is a bad idea.

Off topic I know but didnt the escorts and cruisers already take a nerf way back when all the KDF had was pvp and a few missions or somewhere about that time period?
Quote:
Originally Posted by skollulfr View Post
ship stats by ship size.
think about it, most of the problems are being caused by ships that are as big as cruisers & move like shuttles.

only thing i have seen firing beams in the show where negvars, and they are bigger than galaxies, the issue is the raptor & patrol escort sized ships that are the same size as cruisers yet magically manage 1 second 180 turns

if that stopped, the all cannon birds would still keep their massive burst damage but others would end up more mixed beam/cannon for effectivness.

Vor'cha class cruisers were shown using cannons and beams multiple times in the show FYI and one was keeping up the Defiant's butt in DS9.

So some bigger ships can be quite nimble at least for the KDF anyway.

Plus aren't raptors supposed to be small, the only one ever seen on the TV shows was smaller than the NX01 Enterprise.
toDuj 'oS rol.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,757
# 6
03-06-2013, 07:06 PM
And they are small ingame too.
Defiants are so small one can hardly see them on screen. As are most of the Escorts ingame.
The only biggish Escorts ingame are the Hybrids that mix Escort and something else. Even they are not huge by any means.
Roy Hatch (stryker) soldier, friend, and good man.
1945-2014
RIP
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,757
# 7
03-06-2013, 07:09 PM
Its a moot thread though as Geko has already stated he and Cryptic have no intention of nerfing cannons.
Roy Hatch (stryker) soldier, friend, and good man.
1945-2014
RIP
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 535
# 8
03-06-2013, 07:49 PM
That idea is utterly disgusting.

Sure, there's a problem with Beams and single Cannons but penalizing DHC's to bring them in line with their near-garbage performance...?


Increase Beam damage and reduce their firing arc.
Have the single Cannons integrated with, and can toggle between, Directed Energy Modulation and Scatter Volley/Rapid Fire.
NO to ARC...Keep it in Beta

RIP KDF 2014-07-17 Season 9.5
Captain
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 3,319
# 9
03-06-2013, 08:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemepwe View Post
And they are small ingame too.
Defiants are so small one can hardly see them on screen. As are most of the Escorts ingame.
The only biggish Escorts ingame are the Hybrids that mix Escort and something else. Even they are not huge by any means.
and that would make sense ingame too if stats where done based on their size

Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemepwe View Post
And they are small ingame too.
Defiants are so small one can hardly see them on screen. As are most of the Escorts ingame.
The only biggish Escorts ingame are the Hybrids that mix Escort and something else. Even they are not huge by any means.
the qin is 30% larger than the k'tinga, from what i can tell making it a similer size to an intrepid.
the patrol and adv escorts are bigger than a connie.
the akira is bigger than a stargazer heavy cruiser.

if they all performed according to their weight there wouldnt be an issue,
bop's would still be wildcards thanks to being all universal stations.
t5 ships would be sorted since they wouldnt move like fighters doing 1 second 180's.
that movement by magic being the game breaker thats causing the problems since it neutralises the narrow firing arc of cannons.

hell the vorcha would likely make a bit of a comeback thanks to not being on the end of the same arbitrary discrimination an any other "cruiser" in this game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rezking View Post
That idea is utterly disgusting.

Sure, there's a problem with Beams and single Cannons but penalizing DHC's to bring them in line with their near-garbage performance...?


Increase Beam damage and reduce their firing arc.
Have the single Cannons integrated with, and can toggle between, Directed Energy Modulation and Scatter Volley/Rapid Fire.
you use the moar dps escape & all you get is power creep, since then dhc's will be buffed to make up the difference again.
as it turns out, an intrepid would lose a fight with a connie.
and thats canon.
! the power of plot compels you.

Last edited by skollulfr; 03-06-2013 at 08:14 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 258
# 10
03-06-2013, 09:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemepwe View Post
becuase not only will it effect fed escorts and some Cruisers but it will impact greatly on the KDF I fear.
We use a fair bit of cannons (its our thing) on our ships and too hard a nerf will make DHCs unaffective against Cruiser healing and healing in general, putting us at a disadvantage in combat.
Given that (imo) the other cannon options are poor substitutes and need an upgrade, I think it could be a bad move.


The main thread is in the PvP forums.

Thoughts?
If you read the whole thread in the PvP forums, PWEBranflakes linked to this post by Gecko, clarifying his statement about DHCs and Beams.

Issue resolved, /thread.
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