Rihannsu
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,353
# 21
02-24-2013, 07:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by snoggymack22 View Post
Which one did they lose money on? The K'Tanco? I bet it was the K'Tanco. Then again ... they're the ones that removed the levels that the K'Tanco "skin" could be used in completely from the game. Which is why I bet it was the K'Tanco.

" ... Several KDF ships ..."

What I am about to say its not nice but its going to be said anyway.

When Cryptic released the Kamarag there was the usual noise, nobody really cared the ship was a Sci Heavy Battlecruiser as much it was not cruiser with a Cmdr Tac station, 16 turn rate and the usual I come to expect from players that keep using ships as fighter planes, same happens with Fed too (and I am fair and balanced when it comes to calling it) as I read some crazy things about the Ambassador too.

This is why they lose money on the KDF, a good example is the Bortas that was downright dismissed by KDF players and I suspect this is were Cryptic lost money and stopped releasing ships on Tribble due to the unfavorable amount of feedback that downcried the Bortas of NOT being another Escort, the Bortas only real problem is ... its a different ship, not a fighter jet.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,425
# 22
02-24-2013, 07:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dh4 View Post
I know thats why they did it. Does not mean its fair to the KDF players. It does mean though have lost the $50 I was gonna spend for a new KDF pack.
As far as I know, while they may have longterm aims for very ROUGH PvP and PvE balance, Cryptic has no intention to EVER offer equal access to specific gear, builds, or C-Store offerings and has indicated pretty clearly that they do not seek to provide the KDF with equality in this regard unless sales on existing KDF C-Store items go up.

They MIGHT be open to a special preorder system for KDF but KDF will probably never be given equal C-Store access and devs have specifically and repeatedly reaffirmed that KDF C-Store ships will probably not be added to the game. That doesn't mean KDF ships won't ever be added but it does mean that only the Federation will likely get C-Store ships in the foreseeable future.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 804
# 23
02-24-2013, 07:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by logicalspock View Post
I am highly skeptical of this, but if you have a quotation, please point it out.

If it takes 1000 man hours (or essentially one developer working on the ship for six months straight) to design a new ship, they only have to sell 500 of them at $50 a piece throughout the entire life of the game to recoup their costs if the artists are paid $25 an hour.

I have a hard time believing that throughout the life of the game they will not sell at least a few thousand of each KDF ship design.

I think it is far more likely that they prefer federation ships because they recoup the development cost and get a fair margin of profit within the first week of it going on sale whereas they might not even break even with KDF ships for months.
I don't think you fully understand what is factored into the costs of digital items like this, I don't know the exact figures, but it's probably not just man-hours, you also would have marketting, data storage, royalties, even a portion of the buildings general utilities bills, then they have to have a healthy profit margin, because they have shareholders/investors that they have to deal with.

You are essentially right on the second point though, Feds make them more moneys, so they make more for feds.
Captain
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 4,836
# 24
02-24-2013, 07:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by f2pdrakron View Post
" ... Several KDF ships ..."

What I am about to say its not nice but its going to be said anyway.

When Cryptic released the Kamarag there was the usual noise, nobody really cared the ship was a Sci Heavy Battlecruiser as much it was not cruiser with a Cmdr Tac station, 16 turn rate and the usual I come to expect from players that keep using ships as fighter planes, same happens with Fed too (and I am fair and balanced when it comes to calling it) as I read some crazy things about the Ambassador too.

This is why they lose money on the KDF, a good example is the Bortas that was downright dismissed by KDF players and I suspect this is were Cryptic lost money and stopped releasing ships on Tribble due to the unfavorable amount of feedback that downcried the Bortas of NOT being another Escort, the Bortas only real problem is ... its a different ship, not a fighter jet.
They could have made a C-Store Raptor of some sort. That's a fighter jet. Well actually they just did. The Andorian Escort is shaped a lot like a Raptor. And flies a bit like one.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,353
# 25
02-24-2013, 07:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by f9thaceshigh View Post
...because they have shareholders/investors that they have to deal with.
No they dont.

Cryptic Studios currently is a wholly owned Perfect World subsidiary, as far I am aware they were never traded on the floor.

They dont have to deal with anyone outside their holding company, Perfect World Entertainment and before that it was Atari, SA and one would have go back to the 2008 to be at a point were they were a independent company but even that does not mean they had shareholders, I am not aware of what model they operated before Atari acquired them but companies are not required to be traded on the floor or to issue stocks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by snoggymack22 View Post
They could have made a C-Store Raptor of some sort. That's a fighter jet. Well actually they just did. The Andorian Escort is shaped a lot like a Raptor. And flies a bit like one.
They could have done a lot of things, fact is with the Bortas they made a Heavy Battlecruiser that was "unfun" to fly and did not fall under the categories of "OP" and/or "fighter jet".

The only thing the KDF players have shown is they have no interest on ships that are not OP and/or fighter jet, the Odyssey pack apparently sold enough for them to test it again with the Vesta about 10 months later, unsurprising they are unlikely to take such risks with the KDF when their data shows a lack of interest in new ships and the attitude on the forums by KDF players is aggressive and dismissed about any ship that is not OP and/or a fighter jet.

Last edited by f2pdrakron; 02-24-2013 at 07:42 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 955
# 26
02-24-2013, 07:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by f2pdrakron View Post
No they dont.

Cryptic Studios currently is a wholly owned Perfect World subsidiary, as far I am aware they were never traded on the floor.

They dont have to deal with anyone outside their holding company, Perfect World Entertainment and before that it was Atari, SA and one would have go back to the 2008 to be at a point were they were a independent company but even that does not mean they had shareholders, I am not aware of what model they operated before Atari acquired them but companies are not required to be traded on the floor or to issue stocks.
Perfect World owns Cryptic, and is traded on Nasdaq (PWRD). Essentially, that does mean that Cryptic is traded by proxy.

Now, logically, you could say "But that just means PWE has to deal with stock investors, not Cryptic", which is true ... except that, as anyone who's ever worked a real job knows, S!@# goes down the ladder. Investors get on PWE's back, then PWE gets on Cryptic's back, or whoever else they own.

Anyway, the biggest problem with the KDF faction is the horrible way they launched. Most players had an inkling something was up when the Ship previews heavily favored Starfleet ships over Klingon, but when the game went into Beta, it was abundantly clear that the KDF were severely underdeveloped. Cryptic had promised a full faction, completely competitive with the Federation right up until that moment, when they rapidly changed gears to say that KDF was always planned as a PVP-centric mini-faction -- there are video interviews out there, though, where they talk about how awesome the KDF will be, and how it totally will be a full faction. Oh well!

This caused permanent damage to the KDF, unfortunately. By leaving the KDF incomplete -- and then locking the KDF behind a Federation character level requirement -- they blocked out a lot of people who would otherwise have made a KDF character. That's why the KDF is so small right now, and why those numbers will likely never go up even after a (theoretical) massive overhaul of the faction.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,273
# 27
02-24-2013, 07:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by f2pdrakron View Post
No they dont.

Cryptic Studios currently is a wholly owned Perfect World subsidiary, as far I am aware they were never traded on the floor.

They dont have to deal with anyone outside their holding company, Perfect World Entertainment and before that it was Atari, SA and one would have go back to the 2008 to be at a point were they were a independent company but even that does not mean they had shareholders, I am not aware of what model they operated before Atari acquired them but companies are not required to be traded on the floor or to issue stocks.



They could have done a lot of things, fact is with the Bortas they made a Heavy Battlecruiser that was "unfun" to fly and did not fall under the categories of "OP" and/or "fighter jet".

The only thing the KDF players have shown is they have no interest on ships that are not OP and/or fighter jet, the Odyssey pack apparently sold enough for them to test it again with the Vesta about 10 months later, unsurprising they are unlikely to take such risks with the KDF when their data shows a lack of interest in new ships and the attitude on the forums by KDF players is aggressive and dismissed about any ship that is not OP and/or a fighter jet.
The KDF faction doesn't want 'OP' ships. We want ships that can match the new stuff the Feddies have been given. For the most part, we've had to make do with what we've got.

Yes, the KDF likes ships that can MOVE. That's because all KDF ships are designed to use cannons, and canons are useless on a space whale like the Bortasqu'. The only reason it's not a problem with the Vo'Quv is because the Vo'Quv is a carrier and sci ship. The Bortasqu' is outperformed by advanced variants of the Vor'cha and Negh'var, along with ships like the Tor'kaht and so on. There's really no reason to get the Bortasqu', unless you're a Klingon who likes to fly helpless space whales. . .and there aren't many players like that.

The Bortasqu' was not a well designed ship. It was not a ship that fit KDF sensibilities. As a result, it didn't sell. . .and now people such as yourselves have the nerve to blame the KDF community for not throwing away money at a ship they have little use for?

Leave the space whales to the Federation fanboys, they LIKE buying space whales and pretending they're Kirk or Picard. The KDF want nimble ships that can use the cannon abilities properly, and they want them to be an improvement over what they've got right now. Give the KDF community improved options for raptors, BoPs, and NIMBLE battlecruisers, and they'll buy them.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,273
# 28
02-24-2013, 08:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thratch1 View Post
Perfect World owns Cryptic, and is traded on Nasdaq (PWRD). Essentially, that does mean that Cryptic is traded by proxy.

Now, logically, you could say "But that just means PWE has to deal with stock investors, not Cryptic", which is true ... except that, as anyone who's ever worked a real job knows, S!@# goes down the ladder. Investors get on PWE's back, then PWE gets on Cryptic's back, or whoever else they own.

Anyway, the biggest problem with the KDF faction is the horrible way they launched. Most players had an inkling something was up when the Ship previews heavily favored Starfleet ships over Klingon, but when the game went into Beta, it was abundantly clear that the KDF were severely underdeveloped. Cryptic had promised a full faction, completely competitive with the Federation right up until that moment, when they rapidly changed gears to say that KDF was always planned as a PVP-centric mini-faction -- there are video interviews out there, though, where they talk about how awesome the KDF will be, and how it totally will be a full faction. Oh well!

This caused permanent damage to the KDF, unfortunately. By leaving the KDF incomplete -- and then locking the KDF behind a Federation character level requirement -- they blocked out a lot of people who would otherwise have made a KDF character. That's why the KDF is so small right now, and why those numbers will likely never go up even after a (theoretical) massive overhaul of the faction.
Don't forget that a lot of KDF enthusiasts don't like seeing the faction get neglected in terms of development resources due to some idiotic catch-22 situation that Cryptic created to begin with. That probably drove off a lot of KDF players over time. . .broken promises, etc.

Even the UI is a factor. . .a fair amount of people can't handle the red-shaded UI, it's grating on the eyes. A UI change would be helpful, along with making the KDF faction complete from lvl 1-50.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,353
# 29
02-24-2013, 08:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thratch1 View Post
... Essentially, that does mean that Cryptic is traded by proxy.
This is grasping at straws, even if Perfect World is traded shareholders dont have much if any say in subsidiary, companies are not run by their shareholders or at least not by small individual shareholders but rather by large shareholders that are pretty much a company themselves.

Cryptic answers to PW, thats it ... PW have a board and its still a chinese company, even if traded in nasdaq ... you $10 share is not going to get you to dictate orders to Cryptic.

Oh here is their page on nasdaq.

http://secfilings.nasdaq.com/edgar_c...NY_INFORMATION
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 184
# 30
02-24-2013, 08:07 PM
I wish Cryptic fix the KDF and release a bunch of ships for them, so maybe they (the whole KDF player base, 5 ) can play the game and stop whining like crying babies *cough* errr... I mean "rightfully complains like honorfull warriors" (*rolleyes*) everytime we get a new toy.
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