Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,738
# 101
03-05-2013, 03:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borgressistance View Post
another nerf the escorts thread.

why is it always the cruiser captains,crying like a little boy who lost his sweetroll, for an escort nerf?

ask yourself this:
why do escorts need a nerf:
because i cant handle my cruiser?
because i dont have enough ec to buy decent gear?
or is it because i dont know anything about skills/boff skills?

escorts are not over powered.
the problem is cruiser captains who dont know how to fly there cruiser,dont have a good setup on it,or expect the same damage as from an escort.
---------------------------------------------
incorrect , you may need some more skills in a escort
it appears you need better setup or a respec or better gear
--------------------------------------------
most cruisers have beams,because they cant mount dhc,so dont think that youre beams will do the same damage as dhc's. and yes escorts can mount it,so yes escorts do more damage,but the defiant did also more damage as the galaxy from picard.
-----------------------------------------
No incorrect the defiant never came close to the damage output of a galaxy class

The Galaxy had double the armamnet of the excelsior
A Excelsior defeated the defiant
-------------------------------------------
i see cruisers with skittle beams,and then they are crying help escorts need a nerf because i do not enough damage?
if you think you die to fast,or you dont do enough damage,check youre setup.
use youre skills when the time is ready,i saw a guy yesterday,using he1 when he didnt have plasma burn,he proberly needed a heal,and afer the he1 he got striked by a plasma torpedo,he got mad,because i died again.so use youre skills when the time is there to use them.

try a respec of your skill tree,that can make a huge difference.

and why do escorts look over powered,while they are not?

because of the timer in stf's
because of the timer its a dps race.
and yeah then it look like's the escorts are op.
because of the dhc's
and there speed.
-------------------------------
Bingo you got one right
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why are cruisers good:
they can take massive damage.
they can control a crowd,while escorts need to focus on 1 enemy.
---------------------------------------------
Incorrect ,learn another skill besides CRF
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they can broadside,doing damage to all ships in range
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so can a escort with 3X the firepower
---------------------------------------------

everyone take's a stf as example,
but lets take another mission for example,one without a timer.
starbase fleet defense.
---------------------------------------------------
Who cares its a poor mission with little to no reward
---------------------------------------------------

what i see there is this:

escorts doing damage,but getting killed by multiple enemy's.
escorts blowing into piece's because they cant handle that much enemy's
escorts trying to heal themselfs,and die while using epts 1,he1 and aux2sif1.
--------------------------------------------------------------
These escorts have poor builds and general lack of skills then
---------------------------------------------------------------

i see cruisers,doing broadside damage,with 8 beams,blowing up enemy's.
i see cruisers taking heavy critical damage,but still survive it,and going on with killing enemy's.
i see cruisers,healing the starbase with all there heals,taking damage,and waiting for the cooldown to heal themselfs.

try that in an escort!
--------------------------
its easy we do it all the time ,however the base almost never gets touched now
--------------------------

when there is a timer,damage is king.
when there are multiple enemy's,tanking is king,wich are cruisers.

yeah a escort can take some damage,but cruiser can take far more damage.

its all about how you fly youre cruiser wich setup you have,how you spend youre skills.
and beside's that,i see cruisers doing 3500 damage each beam shot.
that is posseble,but when you do it right.

so stop complaining/crying/begging for a nerf,and start with getting a good setup,respeccing your skills the right way,redoing your boffs.

and before people say; you only fly cruisers. let me say this:

i have :

oddessy science (cruiser)
oddessy tactical (cruiser(
oddessy engineering (cruiser)
jem hadar dreadnought carrier. ( carrier,but in turn rate its almost the same as a cruiser)
breen chell grett class (hybrid)
fleet tactical escort retrofit (escort)
andorian charal class (escort)
-----------------------------------------------------

with my oddessy class cruisers,i take a lot more damage as with my escorts.
and with beams on my cruisers,i do 3200 damage a shot,so its possible guys!
---------------------------------------------
With plasma hyperflux i can get into 4k hits from my fleet excelsior for a few seconds but its 3 minutes before its ready again , with advanced fleet beams you can hit in the 1 k range with 4 tac consoles fully skilled in energy weapons

To get more requires buffs or BO skills or character ( Tac ) skills Or Doff mission rewards

its not uncommon for me to hit in the 12k range in my escort not counting crits which can be ulgy

Heriticknight flys cruisers and escorts and may have forgot more skills than many here have ever known , you must be new to the forum or have been gone a long time

After reading your post many times i believe you need to play a few stfs on elite and do a few SB-24s in your escort because if your performance is so low you dont know the difference in damage between a cruiser and a escort man you are really rusty

The most rewarding content is timed/DPS content in PvE
Thats why my Dilithium Farmers all fly Escorts , not only are they the best but they are so superior they can pull a incomptent Pug team thru a STF singlehanded to get the reward

This is also why cruisers and sci ships need a dPS bost in PvE
Jellico....Engineer.....Stargazer KDF Tac
Saphire.. Science.....Ko'el Rom Kdf Tac
Leva........Tactical.....Mailu KDF Sci

JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 427
# 102
03-05-2013, 03:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpalelena View Post
Well my cruiser can tank a Tactical cube on Elite STFs. My escort dies in 20 seconds.


So yeah. If you have a problem with your cruisers, its your own damn fault for being a noob.


You can all take advice and try to improve, or you can just keep crying here for a single ship with the most health, shields, damage, speed.... hey, why not make your ship receive more dilithium and energy credits too?
And why should it not generate 50 zen every hour to be even better and make you the most awesome person ever?

Wait...why not give you an "I win" button and make your ship invincible? Wait... I am giving people ideas, am I not? I should stop.
I have a fleet tactical escort retrofit on my tac captain, and so you know I tank like a pro against cubes event tac one and a kill them off too no problem dps dps freak . Everything I do I do 3 times better and when I see 20 sec blow up posts,and I pro you noob you have bad skill I just go lol

Last edited by rakija879; 03-05-2013 at 03:48 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,939
# 103
03-05-2013, 04:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thratch1 View Post
Escorts don't need nerfs.

The problem with cruisers and science vessels lies in Engineering and Science abilities. One of the Galaxy-R's biggest problems is that it's loaded with Engineering Boff slots -- the same number of Engineering slots that the Defiant-R has in Tactical slots, incidentally. If Eng and Sci abilities were better, then those ships would be better.

I once suggested that they add an Engineering ability that boosts weapon performance based on the amount of crew a ship has, with huge dropoffs after 1,000. I don't think anyone replied to that, but it was just me spitballing out some ways to fix some issues.

Another huge problem facing the game is Power Creep. We've been playing the same. damn. STFs for years now, but our ships have become more and more powerful, as has our gear. Fleet ships added more durability and more console slots, but the content remained as challenging as it ever was. We're blasting through ESTFs with no challenge, and no incentive to seek out challenge (this is a biggie!). Our benchmark for challenge in this game is essentially ISE, since most people just do that once and hour instead of doing more challenging content like CSE pugs, or even Hive.

Cryptic needs to either add new, non-Borg STFs, or find some way to lure us into more challenging content. Right now our MkXII weapons and full MACO/Omega Force/whatever sets are going to waste on easy stuff because we have no reason to do anything else.

Another issue is that there's no enforcing of the Heal-Tank-DPS trinity in this game. It's so DPS focused without requiring any support. Of course Tac/Escorts will rule this game, when there's nothing for anyone else to do.

In short, escorts aren't the problem -- the rest of the game is. I admit, that sounds dumb on its face, but it's true.
agreed, it sound stupid to say that the game needs to change, but it is spot on the problem of sto. There is far too less need for a tank or a sci ship in this game.

personally i would have made ships in STO like heros in DOTA or LOL...inherent abilities that are unique to the ship. STO tries to implement that via consoles, but imho fails at it.
Surprisingly they the ground combat (mainly the way kits work) have similarities to dota heros.
Also an interesting idea would be a pvp scenario like dota
Go pro or go home
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,540
# 104
03-05-2013, 04:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rakija879 View Post
I have a fleet tactical escort retrofit on my tac captain, and so you know I tank like a pro against cubes event tac one and a kill them off too no problem dps dps freak . Everything I do I do 3 times better and when I see 20 sec blow up posts,and I pro you noob you have bad skill I just go lol
I am sorry that I am less awesome then you. Still, even such a humble and bad player as I can be useful with a cruiser in an elite STF.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,912
# 105
03-05-2013, 04:40 AM
The only escort nerfs I would call for are to the majorly stupidly powerful skills, AP:A, GDF and AP:O

AP:A: Breaks all sci effectiveness as it is the only way to get sci effectiveness, needs sci buffing removed
GDF: See AP:A
AP:O: Immunity to ALL movement debuffs (goodbye all escort weaknesses), needs that removing

That is all then bring all EPtX buffs up to match EPtS (such that EPtW becomes a direct counter giving Cruisers what they need to counter escorts newfound survivability) and across the board sci buff...

I think that's fair...
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,041
# 106
03-05-2013, 04:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by baudl View Post
agreed, it sound stupid to say that the game needs to change, but it is spot on the problem of sto. There is far too less need for a tank or a sci ship in this game.
imo the need for tanking and sci is not too low. imo the problem lies, that sci and tanking cannot be done well in other ships. as in cruisers cannot tank better enough to make a difference, and make them worth playing. you blow up by a 50k torp hit in an escort? you gonna probably die from that in a cruiser too. you want grav well on the field? put gw1 in one of the escorts, and its enough for all intents and purposes in pve, no need for fancy sci ships to create stronger ones, or the ones that are stronger, they dont make much difference, to need a sci for that
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 853
# 107
03-05-2013, 05:55 AM
The problem isn't so much that there's less need to tank, but that everyone can tank so damn easily. For general NPC's you don't even need to hit a buff. For elite STF NPCs A simple EPTS and TT is enough to resist most damage and for the more powerful damage you can just hit TSS and maybe RSP if you really need it.

At this point the only way Cryptic can get an NPC to kill an experienced captain in an escort, is by having the NPC do ridiculous spike damage that'd one shot a cruiser just as easily.

They've messed up the balance so badly that some of my escorts actually have thicker shields than some fleet cruisers (mostly thanks to turning field generators into science consoles and making them stack). Pop some jevonite armour and I'd actually have more hull than a cruiser.

Don't even get me started on how effortless the Borg set heal proc makes the game.

They need to tone almost EVERYTHING down.

Quote:
Originally Posted by borgressistance View Post
another nerf the escorts thread.

why is it always the cruiser captains
I'm an escort captain and have been for two years.

Quote:
i see cruisers,doing broadside damage,with 8 beams,blowing up enemy's.
Meanwhile you can have an escort broadsiding with 7 beams and doing more damage due to weapon buffs. Damage wise anything a cruiser can do an escort can do miles better.

Quote:
i see cruisers taking heavy critical damage,but still survive it,and going on with killing enemy's.
Which is just as easily done in an escort.

Quote:
i see cruisers,healing the starbase with all there heals,taking damage,and waiting for the cooldown to heal themselfs.
Nope got me there, that's about all a cruiser is worth.
Previously Alendiak
Daizen - Lvl 50 Engineer - Fleet Avenger
Selia - Lvl 50 Tactical - Fleet Avenger
Toval - Lvl 50 Tactical - Fleet Mogai

Last edited by orondis; 03-05-2013 at 06:06 AM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 210
# 108
03-05-2013, 06:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hereticknight085 View Post
Wow. You left so many holes in your argument. I will enjoy this.
An this is just your first mistake. I argue nothing, what I express here is my opinion, and you'll have to live with that, timmy.

Let me compress this dirge of yours, in the interest of not boring our fellow readers. There is no way you can dance your way into taking something from me to make yourself feel better for choosing a class of ship you don't like. Since Cryptic is on my side in this, there's something else you'll have to live with.

Quote:
My recommendation would be to chill out, and take a deep breath, before this turns into something like that other thread you started a month or two ago.
You're funny! I've got what I want, an ample selection of powerful, just fragile enough escorts, while you're reduced to wishing on a star for something that isn't going to happen. That being true, the self-aggrandizing tripe quoted above is just you trying to project your insecurites on me. Thanks for TRYING to play, son.

Last edited by chuckingram; 03-05-2013 at 06:11 AM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 210
# 109
03-05-2013, 06:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by orondis View Post
I'm an escort captain and have been for two years.
It's a fake! There's no way that an escort captain is going to volunteer to be nerfed at the altar of "balance." Sorry, no sale.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,180
# 110
03-05-2013, 07:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hereticknight085 View Post
I have already determined that 90% of what you say is hot air due to your inability to comprehend what canon is and give me your supposedly "un-killable cruiser" build. Sooo yeah. What you have to say is meaningless here.
I never said it was unkilliable. It can be killed. I'm saying the whole escort arguement is crap for my ship proves it. And what do i see in STFs? A combo of Escorts, Cruisers, and Carriers. Not all escorts (unless it's a team already). You may debate my opinion on JJ Wreck gut in this I'm talking from experience. Benn here late S5. Mainly played an escort (armitage) during S6. When S7 came I found out how vunerable my escort was in elite STF. So I switch back to GalX and boom died less and did more. Heck I brought my neghvar out again for kicks and was surprised how good she was. SO someone is crappy in a cruiser, that person hasn't learned how to use the cruiser nor gave it the right build. Escorts are easy for noobies for guarantee of damage, which should be there for they are an escort. But any ship or class can be beaten by a good build and a skilled player.

GAME,SET,MATCH
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