Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,102
# 31
02-25-2013, 05:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by izariel44 View Post
There have been many threads on this but mums the word at PW. Every patch makes escorts more and more powerful and cruisers and science ships more and more obsolete. I rarely ever see a science ship anymore and it seems that the only people that play cruisers are those that have sentimental attachments to them (like me).

I was one of the originals that started this game on the first day and chose an engineer captain. Oh, that I had chosen a tac captain like 90% of players today are playing.

Tactical/escort captains have insane damage, healing, maneuverability, and survivability now. There is no upside to playing a cruiser and its a cold day in *&^*&* when you would play a science ship over an escort.

I dont need to go into specifics. There are more threads on this topic than you can shake a plasma injector at, but this needs to be addressed, soon.

Rebalance the ships- give them all roles once again. Nerf escorts, buff cruisers, and really buff science ships. It is desperately needed.
Sorry mate, you're straight up wrong about science ships. Bring any escort, any against my Sci Wells and it will die, the only one that always ends in a stalemate is when my Wells is against a bug. Throw the same sci in with a bug and it's unstoppable as a team, a lot of this is team work. Contact me ingame if you want to see what a Sci can do matt@tfr_maco_specialist

Buffing cruisers turn rates and beam drain would be welcome though.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,738
# 32
02-25-2013, 05:40 AM
The excelsior ( fleet ) is in my opinion the best cruiser with 4 Tac consoles, there is no content it cannot do as well as any other ship

Solo its a stand alone ship in pve able to tank and take out any boss , not many ships can do that solo

The problem its out of reach to most players and a lot of players do not like its looks ect

There needs to be a way to upgrade your current ship to the best in its class ( cruisers )
For Zen so cryptic makes money making the programming time worth there while while also buffing cruisers and science ships to the level they need to be at

Your ship will still look like a Nebula but will have the best Boff layout weapon slots hull shield mods ect as the very best science ship in the game

Or the same for a cruiser

For a price let people fly the ship they want fully modernized for a number of fleet modules call the new ship the Mk-II for example

This would be very easy for cryptic to do because only changing numbers around on the models is needed no building of a new ship

To ask cryptic to revamp all of the science ships and cruisers to catch up to the escorts is something they will not do unless they can make money doing it is what i think

The escort is OP and far ahead of the cruisers and science ships in PvE , I fly a fleet defiant a fleet Excelsior and a Wells some of the best ships in their classes so i have experence in all the three classes as many of you do.

And you know there are a LOT of people who would spend money to fly the ship THEY want to play the game in if it was the best in its cass

everyone does not want to fly a escort A lot of people do not want to fly a alien ship
I bet cryptic isnt happy with the jem hadar ship sales either , sure dont see many being sold now do we

I think we have a glut of Op escorts and allien lock box OP ships
But nothing in the standard fed line other than a few escorts that is really game worthy
personally i think a lot of money can be made modernizing ships like the nebula ,galaxy and galaxy X
Jellico....Engineer.....Stargazer KDF Tac
Saphire.. Science.....Ko'el Rom Kdf Tac
Leva........Tactical.....Mailu KDF Sci

JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,600
# 33
02-25-2013, 05:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jellico1 View Post
i think a lot of money can be made modernizing ships like the nebula ,galaxy and galaxy X
problem is it would end the power creep and be a one-time expense. If I could make my nebbie be as good as my wells. Believe me i would. But i wouldn't buy any other ships in STO ever, (D'deridex aside which i m buying no matter what stats it has).

So from their balance sheet perspective, having the most iconic ships be underperforming is working as intended. If people spend 200$ on the bug, it kills, but they would like to have a FEderation ship, they are more likely to buy the smurf, or the armitage on top of the bug.

Joined 06.10
PvP 2010-2011
PvP 2012-2013
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,121
# 34
02-25-2013, 05:44 AM
A lot of the problem comes from the rep passives, when we look at each one what do we see? The offensive option or the defensive option, but the defense is always 10x more effective. The tier 4 passive shield heal or the % chance to proc bonus damage, the bonus damage is a complete joke, while the passive heal can double some escort's healing potential.

If this stuff would have been thought through better, the damage option might have been more appealing, but nearly every escort takes the heal.
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Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 960
# 35
02-25-2013, 06:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mwgacy1 View Post
They somehow managed to make the Kumari heals less effective than they should be. It may be a little rough around the edges on Cryptic's side but on the player end it would probably not be noticed: the only problem is many Cruisers don't support so all that would be achieved in making Escorts weaker is to increase the amount of time they spend running away or respawning. From around 40 STFs over the weekend, I received a heal in only one, and that was from a Science ship.
That was a bug, and it wouldn't have been fair to keep it just because they thought no one would notice. In fact, people did notice, which is why the bug was fixed in the first place.

Maybe adding in trait-like passive buffs to certain classes might help, but in my opinion that would only crystallize the existing constellation of builds and class combinations in service of the MMO trinity.

One of the cool things about STO's space combat is that almost any combination of class/ship is effective so long as you follow certain commonsense (sorta) "rules". Some things are without a doubt MORE effective than others, but for the most part it comes down to player skill and practice.

Gear, consoles and other gimmickry is icing on the cake and allows truly skilled players to distinguish themselves, with things like exotic builds and completing tasks crazy-quick.

It's true that the content isn't balanced and more needs to be done to reduce or mitigate the overemphasis on DPS, but in no case is the answer "hard nerfing". I'd prefer they change the STFs or make more STFs than to penalize portions of the playerbase.

And for the record, I like being able to complete ISE in almost any PUG so long as people know what they're doing, than wiping 15 times in a row playing Hammer Station in Old Republic because 1 person doesn't know how to tank properly (that happened to me just last week).
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 119
# 36
02-25-2013, 08:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by unangbangkay View Post
That was a bug, and it wouldn't have been fair to keep it just because they thought no one would notice. In fact, people did notice, which is why the bug was fixed in the first place
I wasn't suggesting leaving it in place, what I meant was that, whether it was a 'proper' fix or a nasty piece of work on the back end, no one playing the game would notice other than the different heal strength each ship class would have available to it.

However I have to admit that the Kumari, both now and before it was fixed, has been one of the most fun Escorts (for me, at least) to play in PvE because it is actually in danger of being destroyed by something other than a one shot. Fair enough, I can still clear an ISE without a respawn but whereas in my Fleet Defiant or MVAE that's not really anything special, in the Kumari it takes a lot more effort to stay in one piece.

Quote:
Originally Posted by unangbangkay
One of the cool things about STO's space combat is that almost any combination of class/ship is effective so long as you follow certain commonsense (sorta) "rules". Some things are without a doubt MORE effective than others, but for the most part it comes down to player skill and practice.
True, it's also what I like and I'd hate to see a forced trinity in STO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by unangbangkay
It's true that the content isn't balanced and more needs to be done to reduce or mitigate the overemphasis on DPS, but in no case is the answer "hard nerfing". I'd prefer they change the STFs or make more STFs than to penalize portions of the playerbase.
I don't believe a nerf is the answer either.

I still feel that one of the best things they could do with STO PvE is to remove the over reliance on kinetic damage from NPCs and switch them instead to sustained energy damage: an Escort can recover from any kinetic hit it survives as well as a Cruiser can because there's very little incoming damage in between hits (other than DoTs) but only a Cruiser or a Science ship would be able to hold up to constant 8 beam broadsides from a Tac Cube/ Negh'var/ other big Cruiser: those classes that are commonly complained about would have a purpose.

It might even make it a little less annoying when you die to a sustained attack as you can do something about it (fall back to recover or ask for heals/ resists) rather than the current one shots which serve no other purpose than to make sure everyone in the house knows that I know a lot of swear words.
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 622
# 37
02-25-2013, 08:45 AM
Synergy is needed. The Grand Amalgamation is not the answer.
All cloaks should be canon.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 463
# 38
02-25-2013, 09:22 AM
I still say cruisers should get a 50% bonus boost in damage vs Sci ships and a 100% bonus damage boost vs Escorts. This leaves the tankiness of the escorts untouched but that the same time, makes them think twice about attacking a 7 or 8 beamed cruiser because they'll be taking much more damage than if they were attacking another target.

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Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by ferdzso0 View Post
didnt they just release a 5 fore weapon escort with basically no drawbacks? there is your answer
Look at it in combat and it spontaneously combusts.
Captain
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 4,836
# 40
02-25-2013, 10:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by daiouvegeta2 View Post
I still say cruisers should get a 50% bonus boost in damage vs Sci ships and a 100% bonus damage boost vs Escorts.
What about carriers, destroyers and raiders? And NPC ships like cubes and spheres? Or transformers and other static space objects?
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